Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Jan. 30th, 2014

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

I call this meeting to order. This is the 11th meeting of the Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development.

Today we continue our study on Bill C-15, our review of the bill.

We have three witnesses for our panel this afternoon. From Dominion Diamond Holdings Ltd., we have Brendan Bell, the president. Thank you so much, Brendan, for joining us.

We have, from the Mining Association of Canada, Mr. Rick Meyers. Thanks so much as well for joining us.

Also Bob Bleaney is here representing the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers.

Usually in committee we turn the floor over to our guests to give an opening statement of 10 minutes or less. We'll do that, and then we'll have some questions for you. We thank you for joining us today. We know that you're all very busy and have other things to do, but you have taken the time to join us and we certainly appreciate that.

Before we turn it over to our guests, I want to note that this is the continuation of our hearings. We just came back from Yellowknife. I want to take the time to thank our staff, our analysts, our clerk, as well as our logistics officers, who undertook the work that was necessary to get us to Yellowknife and back on time and on schedule, taking care of all the needs that we had. We certainly appreciate our staff, their diligence, and their continued work, as well as the work of the interpreters who travelled with us. All of them are still at work and we appreciate that.

Let's turn it over to our guests. We'll start with Mr. Bell and his statement, and then we'll turn it over to the other gentlemen before we ask questions of you all.

[Brendan Bell, President, Dominion Diamond Holdings Ltd.]

Mr. Chairman and committee members, thank you for the opportunity to be here today to present to you on what is obviously very important legislation for the Northwest Territories. I know very well the logistics of moving around between the NWT and Ottawa, so I appreciate your recognition that it was important to take this work on the road and go up to Yellowknife and visit. This is a very hot topic in the Northwest Territories. It's very important; monumental, really. It was important for people to see that work being done.

I am here today representing Dominion Diamond as president of the company, but I'm also here as a proud northerner. I've lived and worked in the Northwest Territories since I was very young. I'm also a former member of the Northwest Territories legislative assembly. I firmly believe that the future of the north is about northerners having more say and more decision-making power over the future development of the territory. I'm also very proud to work for a company that shares that belief.

I want to take you through some of the history of Dominion Diamond. You may remember them formerly known as Harry Winston Diamonds, a venerable retailer of jewellery, now Dominion. We have a long history in the NWT. The roots trace back to the original discovery of Canadian diamonds. My colleague from MAC will talk a little bit more about that in the next few minutes.

In the 1990s diamonds were discovered. We were on the scene and a part of that discovery. We founded and still own 40% of the Diavik Diamond Mine, which is run by multinational mining company Rio Tinto. Our chairman and CEO, Bob Gannicott, was in fact one of the earliest explorers for northern diamonds. He's worked extensively throughout the Northwest Territories during his career. He's worked across the arctic from Nunavut and in fact Greenland to Alaska. Dominion Diamond is the NWT's largest mining company. We are proud of the fact that we have hired and employ more northerners, and in fact aboriginal northerners, than any other mining company in the Northwest Territories; I hazard to say even any other company in the Northwest Territories. We are a very important employer in the region.

Last year our chairman and board of directors made a decision to pursue additional diamond assets in the north. As a result, we ended up selling our jewellery business to Swatch and purchased an 80% ownership stake in the Ekati Diamond Mine. We believe that this decision to invest in the north, when others in the industry clearly were leaving and also during a period of economic uncertainty internationally, reflects our ongoing belief and confidence in Canada's north. Just as important, a decision by our board to move our corporate headquarters from Toronto to Yellowknife after our purchase of the Ekati mine is yet another important indication of this confidence. I ask you to remember that we are traded on the TSX and on the NYSE. I know we are the only company that would be located in Canada's north in that respect.

I would also like to say that this is a pragmatic decision to move north. We took the decision with the understanding that devolution was imminent. We said to ourselves that if decisions were going to be made in the north, and that's where the decision-makers were going to be, then that's where we needed to be. In addition to our interest in the two operating mines we continue exploration, both within our Diavik and Ekati claim blocks but also external to that. We have some additional claims. We are firmly of the belief that all of the diamond mines that are going to be found ultimately in the Northwest Territories have not been discovered to date. It seems incredible that they would have been all found in the first few years of exploration, so we continue to explore.

We also currently have two applications before regulatory boards that would extend the life of the Ekati mine by an additional 10 to 20 years. We can't be sure how long that mine life would be, but at least 10 years of open pit in something called the Jay kimberlite pipe, and high potential that we would go underground after that. That 10 to 20 years is both the Jay-Cardinal project, which is going through a full environmental assessment, and also the Lynx project, which has been pushed to permitting already.

Currently, Ekati is scheduled to close in 2019, which I think is why BHP Billiton was selling. These applications for Lynx and Jay-Cardinal extensions are of critical importance to Dominion Diamond. They can also ensure the continuation of the significant economic benefits that this mine brings to the people, the communities, and the governments in the Northwest Territories. These benefits of course include jobs, both direct and indirect; contracts with many northern and aboriginal firms; and also benefits to communities from impact benefit agreements on the sources, and taxes and royalty payments to governments.

Mr. Chairman, as you can see, we have a very large interest in the bill that's presently before your committee. We fully support the devolution of responsibility for public lands, resources, and water to the Government of the Northwest Territories. As someone who has served as a minister responsible for resource development, I know well the importance of giving northerners the necessary tools and the authority to responsibly development the territory's tremendous natural resource potential.

We would like to congratulate Premier McLeod, his cabinet, and the members of the legislative assembly for a job well done in negotiating this long-sought-after agreement, and as importantly, for working with aboriginal governments to ensure that a “made in the Northwest Territories” approach to devolution was taken.

I am pleased to advise you that our company has developed good relationships at all levels of government in the Northwest Territories, including productive working relationships with the GNWT. We understand that this relationship will change and expand as the GNWT takes on new responsibilities on April 1. We look forward to and are very encouraged and excited about the prospect of working with them during this period.

We fully support the transfer of these responsibilities to the GNWT, but we also recognize that a transfer of this magnitude brings organizational challenges to both governments. Dominion Diamond would encourage both governments to work collaboratively to minimize any transitional issues that would lead to unnecessary delays in the regulatory process.

With respect to the regulatory improvement aspects of this bill, Dominion Diamond is supportive of initiatives to ensure an effective but timely regulatory process. Specifically, we're encouraged that the Government of Canada is bringing forth changes that will ensure clarity and certainty in the review and assessment of proposed projects by establishing firm time limits for these reviews, similar to limits that exist in other regulatory processes.

It's a welcome improvement to the current regulatory process from our perspective, both for investor confidence and in regard to our current operations and expansion plans for our continued investment in the NWT. We also recognize that this brings with it an onus on proponents such as ourselves to provide project plans and information in a timely manner, and we intend to do that.

Another section of the bill that's generated great debate is the restructuring of the land and water boards into a single 11-member board. We recognize some of the concerns that have been expressed in the NWT and are encouraged, however, by the commitments of Premier McLeod and his government to work in partnership with aboriginal governments through the intergovernmental council and by both governments to review the provisions of the MVRMA after five years. We think that's very important. From our perspective, Dominion Diamond has had a very productive working relationship with regulators, and we have every confidence that it will continue.

Importantly for us, it's critical to ensure that there are few transitional issues—at least as few as possible—as devolution occurs, but I will tell you that we're very encouraged thus far. Both governments continue to engage with us to ensure we have early visibility on any potential issues that might arise.

Mr. Chairman, I again want to thank you and your committee for offering me the opportunity to speak today and also for travelling to Yellowknife. This is a bill of critical importance to the future of the Northwest Territories.

Mahsi cho.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Thank you, Mr. Bell. We appreciate your testimony.

Mr. Meyers, we'll turn to you for your opening statement.

[Rick Meyers, Vice-President, Technical and Northern Affairs, Mining Association of Canada]

Thank you.

For the record, my name is Rick Meyers. I'm vice-president of technical and northern affairs for the Mining Association of Canada. Previously, between 1998 and 2007, I was director of mineral resources for Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development Canada.

My presentation today is based on a joint submission by the Mining Association of Canada, the NWT & Nunavut Chamber of Mines, and the Prospectors and Developers Association of Canada that was presented to Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development in October of 2013.

In the interest of time, I'll give a very brief overview of Canada's mining industry and the contributions mining has made in the Northwest Territories, and then provide some comments that we wish to put forward on Bill C-15.

I believe most of you are familiar with the Mining Association, so I won't go into much detail here. We have more than 80 members working across all aspects of the sector. Our members are committed to sustainable development, and our performance has been publicly reported under our “towards sustainable mining” initiative

Mining contributes in a major way to Canada's economy in terms of employment and business development, capital investment, and taxes and royalties, and is the largest private sector employer of aboriginal Canadians. As a global competitor, Canada is a world leader in mineral exploration, development, and production, especially as a contributor to Canada's goods exports, at 20% of the total.

The NWT's mining industry today consists of four producing mines—three diamond mines, two of which are world-class mines, Ekati and Diavik, and a tungsten mine, Cantung, which is the western world's largest producer of tungsten concentrate—and some 33 past producers, which long ago established the Northwest Territories as a mineral-rich and productive territory.

Mining is the largest private sector contributor to the Northwest Territories economy. It does that in terms of employment; investment and spending; business development; contributions to northern infrastructure, including more than $100 million in contributions to community development; and workforce development, specifically in extensive programming in aboriginal skills training and education.

The value of the Northwest Territories' mineral production since 1999 is attributed largely to diamond production, which places Canada third by value in global production. Despite their high productivity, even some of the diamond mines are approaching their maturity. New discoveries will be needed if the Northwest Territories is to maintain the current level of economic prosperity that the mining industry has provided over the last number of years.

In terms of taxes and royalties, since 2002 the mining industry has been one of the highest-paying sectors in the territory. To the end of 2013, corporate taxes and royalties have amounted to approximately $3.6 billion. By 2020 they're projected to be in the order of $5.6 billion. The industry also contributes other major payments not included here, such as payroll income taxes and fuel and property taxes.

I'm not sure if you have a copy of the deck I'm using here, but in terms of aboriginal business development, our deck contains a list of more than 50 aboriginal companies that provide goods and services to the Northwest Territories mines. Fifteen year ago less than a handful of aboriginal companies had the capacity to do such business, so this is an incredible story of success for northern mining working so successfully with aboriginal communities.

With respect to Bill C-15, the mining industry sees devolution as an important step forward for the Northwest Territories, and long-awaited. As an indication of its recognition of the importance of our sector, the Government of the Northwest Territories has partnered with the NWT & Nunavut Chamber of Mines to produce its new mineral development strategy.

This strategy is intended to focus on five key pillars to improve competitiveness and enhance northern opportunities: creating a competitive edge, with the NWT as an investment destination of choice; improving the Northwest Territories regulatory environment; enhancing aboriginal engagement and community capacity; promoting sustainability; and enriching workforce development and public awareness. These are all positive initiatives.

In terms of industry's participation and input, again I refer to my deck. There is a table that shows the involvement that industry has had in northern regulatory improvement over the years. I won't go into it in much detail, but the table indicates that we have been fully engaged from the beginning in several of the government's northern initiatives during the past decade.

They include, particularly, Minister Strahl's northern regulatory improvement initiative, Minister Duncan's action plan on improving regulations, and now the amendments to the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act under Minister Valcourt. We have been there pretty much every step of the way.

The MVRMA defines the regulatory framework for most mining projects in the Northwest Territories, and the key proposed amendments under consideration are the addition of timelines to bring the northern processes in line and create equivalency with the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act.

The authority for ministerial policy direction to boards, the consideration for the life of project water licences, and of course the restructuring of the land and water boards are all generally considered to be improvements, or at least potential improvements, to the act. However, there are other opportunities that we think are important that we'd like to put forward. I have five points I want to make.

The first relates to timelines. Our issue is with the requirement for the completion of an environmental assessment, which can take 12 to 24 months, prior to the commencement of an environmental impact review, which is another 24 months, and that is if there is no public hearing. The solution we propose is that if an EIR is required, we recommend consolidating both processes into a single 24-month process, with full consideration for any and all evidence presented in any earlier environmental assessment process.

The second one is unwarranted referrals, and this is in reference to what we believe to be unwarranted referrals to environmental assessment of low-impact activities such as grassroots exploration projects, small drilling projects, geophysical surveys, and the like, based on undefined public concern. Our recommendation here is to put some definition on “public concern” and its scope, and apply the definition appropriately.

The next point relates to proportionality. We advocate for the flexibility for a board to tailor the scope of an environmental assessment in proportion to the magnitude and expected impacts of a project, rather than a one-size-fits-all approach.

The fourth is in reference to the restructuring of the land and water boards. We recognize that this proposal presents concerns and we also understand that there are advantages and efficiencies with this approach. However, in recent years we've seen an increase in the maturity and professionalism in board management and the processes that they administer. Our members have established productive working relationships with the regional panels. I particularly want to point out the Wek’eezhii board here.

We want to emphasize the importance of those relationships, going forward. We also want to stress the importance of ensuring that community representatives continue to be involved with projects coming forward in their regions.

Finally, with respect to the duty to consult, we have seen much of the responsibility for consultation delegated to industry over the past number of years, so we therefore welcome the provision to create regulations to address this. But these regulations will probably take a few years, so in the interim we suggest that this is perhaps an area where the minister could apply his or her policy direction to the boards for the clarification of responsibilities when it comes to consultation.

Looking to the future across Canada, the Mining Association of Canada has estimated some $140 billion in proposed mineral development projects that are currently in environmental assessment and permitting processes. In the Northwest Territories, most of the projects coming forward are included in this estimate. In the north, mineral development is the primary and frequently the only opportunity for economic development for many, if not most, northern remote communities. Future development in the Northwest Territories will be dependent on its ability to attract investment. Therefore, the Northwest Territories investment climate will be a highly motivating factor.

In summary, successful development attracts new investment; however, this investment cannot be taken for granted. Capital is mobile and competition for it is global.

Investment decisions are made on fairness and predictability of process, so confidence in the regulatory process is paramount. An improved regulatory environment will help provide certainty for northern operators, and Bill C-15 has the potential to support this objective. We encourage you to consider the recommendations that we're putting forward here today.

Thank you very much for the opportunity.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Thank you, Mr. Meyers, and thank you for your opening comments.

We'll turn to you now, Mr. Bleaney, for your opening comments.

[Bob Bleaney, Vice-President, External Relations, Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers]

Good morning, Mr. Chairperson and members of the committee.

My name is Bob Bleaney. I'm the vice-president of external relations for the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers, or CAPP.

CAPP represents Canada’s upstream oil and gas sector. Our members find and develop about 90% of Canada’s oil and natural gas resources all across the country. Together, they invest over $60 billion annually and employ more than 550,000 people across Canada.

We appreciate the opportunity to contribute our perspectives regarding Bill C-15, the Northwest Territories devolution act. This is a historic bill, as the people of the Northwest Territories are set to take control of the future path of the development of the abundant natural resources in their region.

As you are aware, the bill was tabled in early December last year. Although we are still in the process of assessing all its implications, we can say that CAPP supports the intent and the spirit of Bill C-15 and views it as a positive step that will aid northern development.

To date, CAPP has primarily focused its review on part 4 of the bill, relating to the proposed amendments to the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act, or the MVRMA.

The federal government’s initiatives for regulatory reform have been a positive step forward towards improving regulatory efficiency and effectiveness while ensuring a continued high standard of environmental performance. Extending these reforms into the Northwest Territories will be important for attracting and enabling investment that creates jobs, economic growth, and prosperity for the Northwest Territories and all Canadians.

Regulatory process bottlenecks in the past have often led to project delays or outright cancellations, with the resulting adverse effects on economic and social benefits that could flow from these projects. Accordingly, CAPP is strongly supportive of the government’s objectives to improve the efficiency and the effectiveness of the northern regulatory regime.

The MVRMA is a core piece of regulatory legislation in the Northwest Territories, and the proposed changes to this are very important to our industry. For example, the ability for the minister to give binding policy direction to all MVRMA boards, including the land and water boards, the land use planning boards, and the environmental impact review boards should provide for a more cohesive, unified, and comprehensive review process, one that should be a benefit to all parties involved.

CAPP fully respects existing comprehensive land claim agreements and aboriginal treaty rights and supports the federal government’s protection of the these agreements and rights in the proposed amendments.

CAPP's view is that the regulatory bodies in the north should be efficient, timely, and ensure regional knowledge is appropriately considered in the review process. In this vein, we support the accommodation measure in the MVRMA that requires the chair of the Mackenzie Valley Land and Water Board to consider the inclusion of regional nominees when committees are dispatched to address proposed projects. This will be particularly important in respect of the proposed board amalgamation, in order to retain regional representation in their process.

The proposed clarification of timelines for the environmental impact assessment process is also a very positive step. The historical lack of predictability—and the resulting uncertainty—of review timelines for project proposals in the central Mackenzie Valley has been a significant concern for project proponents.

Investment and operational decisions benefit from a predictable review process, particularly as to review scope and timing. This is essential for being able to manage work activities to fit within the limited seasonal operational windows that exist in the north. Unexpected delays in the timing of authorizations can disrupt project plans, which can translate, as I mentioned, to serious delays and missed opportunities.

Critical path decisions and investment timelines have been a systemic challenge to the north and are especially pronounced when compared to timelines in competing oil and gas jurisdictions. Our industry is global in scale, and northern oil and gas exploration and development projects have to aggressively compete for limited investment dollars against opportunities elsewhere in Canada and around the world. Reducing the risks and uncertainties in project review timelines, as proposed in this legislation, will serve to improve northern competitiveness.

Devolution of federal responsibilities to the Northwest Territories, coupled with increased exploration interest, facilitates the opportunity to make the needed improvements to regulatory efficiency and effectiveness. The transition stage from April 1 forward will be a crucial time.

CAPP appreciates the mirroring of the federal legislation that’s been mandated by the devolution agreement, which will support stability, continuity, and predictability of the regulatory regime through this transition.

Such a regime is fundamental to creating a positive environment for investment, which creates jobs and economic growth, and tax and royalty revenues to government. Industry invested about $600 million in the north over the past three years, and is expected to spend an additional $650 million based on existing land commitments alone. An improved regulatory framework should help to stimulate further investment.

The north is a key area of interest to our industry, an area of vast oil and gas potential but not without its challenges, which makes regulatory effectiveness and efficiency that much more crucial to success. Being a frontier area, there is a lack of infrastructure, likely the most limiting factor for exploration and development work in this region, whether it be with regard to physical infrastructure, like roads or pipelines or facilities; community infrastructure with respect to housing and recreation; workforce availability; or service sector support.

Although there is large resource potential, most of these resources await confirmation as to whether they are economically viable, and timely assessment through exploration will be key to their realization.

I should also note that the north is not alone in its challenges. Whether in producing jurisdictions such as B.C., Alberta, Saskatchewan, and the Atlantic Canada offshore, or potential new development areas, such as Quebec, New Brunswick and the Atlantic onshore, there are common challenges facing Canadian oil and gas development. They include access to domestic, North American, and other international markets; competitiveness in the areas of fiscal and regulatory policies; workforce availability; access to precious investment capital; and having the social license to operate with respect to public confidence and trust.

With devolution set to go live April 1, 2014, and the related legislative changes through Bill C-15, there is a historic opportunity for the Northwest Territories to start to address these challenges and advance its vision for oil and gas development. There will be ongoing regulatory work needed to be done to achieve this vision, as it will remain important to ensure the timely implementation of related changes to regulations and policies to support this legislative intent.

In closing, CAPP supports the federal government in its efforts to improve the regulatory framework in the Northwest Territories. These amendments have been under development and consulted upon for a number of years as part of AANDC's action plan on northern regulatory improvement. These amendments are a positive step forward on the long road towards expanded oil and gas exploration and development in the Northwest Territories.

We look forward to continuing to consult with the Northwest Territories and federal governments to work together to help this vision become a reality. I’d like to thank you for this opportunity to present to you today. I look forward to your questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Thank you, Mr. Bleaney.

We thank you all for coming. We have some questions for you, no doubt.

We'll turn to our first questioner.

Mr. Bevington, we'll turn it to you for the first seven minutes.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses. We're certainly glad that you're here today to give this testimony on, I would say, a very interesting and exciting opportunity for the north. But it's one that's been tempered, if you've been following the testimony that took place in Yellowknife earlier this week, by the strong presentation by the three claimant groups that have particular interests in maintaining the integrity of their land claims agreements through the regional boards, which they recognize the importance of.

Going forward in the Northwest Territories, when we look at the statistics, the level of projects that go forward in the unsettled areas versus the settled areas, you see the difference that occurs there. Would it not be wise to say that one of the most important elements of moving forward with development in the north is the settlement and implementation of the claims agreements with all the aboriginal groups?

Mr. Bell, would you like to speak to that?

[Brendan Bell]

Thank you, Member Bevington for the question. It's nice to see you, Dennis.

I think it's undeniable that we need to focus our efforts and collectively put our shoulders to the wheel of settling these outstanding claims, and that certainly would make a difference.

I know the GNWT is focused on that, as is the federal government. There has been not enough and not an awful lot of progress in the Akaitcho region, which is where a lot of the prospective mining will occur in future.

But if we're going to be honest about this, there are things that industry points to for lack of development. Certainly unsettled claims are among them and are near the top of the list. Over the years, the much maligned regulatory regime has been pointed to as well.

We need to start knocking down some of these hurdles to development. The settlement of claims will be one, and we need to work to fast-track that. Reforming the regulatory regime is another. As well, if we're just going to be completely honest about it, we need some help and some tailwinds from commodity markets. I've been around a number of tables where it's been clear to me that you could hand permits out at the table and you just weren't going to be able to build mines, so it's important that we keep that in mind as well.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

I was really looking for a comment from you on the claims process. I'm limited in my time, so I really must ask you to be specific to the questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Feel free to ask your questions, Dennis.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

When we have a situation now in which the claimant groups are all saying they're going to take all available action to fight the changes that are proposed in the regulatory system, specifically the loss of the regional boards—that's what happened in Yellowknife on Monday—and we have an agreement that says that no less than five years has to pass before we have any review of the changes to the regulatory system, is the mining industry at all concerned that we may end up in the situation in the next five years of having litigation and issues with trust and cooperation with the first nations, who quite clearly said that taking these regional boards away was unacceptable to them?

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Is that directed to anybody in particular?

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

It's for the mining industry.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

We'll turn to Mr. Meyers if he has a comment.

[Rick Meyers]

Certainly it would be a concern if litigation came forward as a result of this move in terms of restructuring. However, we believe there are opportunities with respect to restructuring. You're right that it's intended to sort of freeze the process for the next five years, but five years can be a relatively short time. There will undoubtedly be opportunities to work with the Government of the Northwest Territories in the future, we hope.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Five years is a short time, but three years for an environment assessment project is a long time.

I don't quite understand that logic, but I'll accept it because it's coming from you and you're speaking in front of a committee that relatively expects you to speak the truth.

That's a concern we all have. As a result of that, I'm going to bring a motion forward now, Mr. Chair. I'd like to move:

That the Committee recommend to the House that it be granted the power during its consideration of Bill C-15, An Act to replace the Northwest Territories Act to implement certain provisions of the Northwest Territories Lands and Resources Devolution Agreement and to repeal or make amendments to the Territorial Lands Act, the Northwest Territories Waters Act, the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act, other Acts and certain orders and regulations, to divide the Bill in two separate bills such that those sections dealing with amendments to the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act and any consequential amendments flowing from the amendments of the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act form a separate bill.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Thank you.

Were you serving notice or are you moving a motion now?

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

I'm moving a motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

I am just asking you to entertain the idea that we could move this to committee business later on so we don't take up the witnesses' time.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

I'm not prepared to do that at that time because we're going in camera at that time and I'd prefer this to be part of the public record.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

You have a copy—

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

—and you can circulate it to committee members in both languages? We're going to have this circulated to members if it is in both languages.

It's not in both languages, so we're unable to circulate it. Let me just take a second here.

We can't circulate it because of the language requirements. We could move to a vote if committee members are prepared to do that.

All those in favour of the motion?

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Sorry, Mr. Chair. I'd like to speak to the motion.