Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on April 26th, 2018

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Section 35.

[Derek Simon]

Under section 91(24).

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

I'm going to use a practical example, because you referred to Bill C-45. That's the marijuana legislation, a piece of legislation that clearly will be impacting indigenous peoples across this country.

It calls for free, prior, and informed consent, so we now know, obviously, the first nations across the country, the Inuit, the Métis.... This is the ability of the Government of Canada to move forward with a piece of legislation needing informed consent. I know right now in the courts, the Liberal lawyers are arguing that that would completely fetter the ability of the federal government to move forward, because you overlay in Daniels how you get to any sort of place where you can do the appropriate work for free, prior, and informed consent with all the treaty and rights holders on something like a law of general application.

[Chief Rebecca Knockwood]

To me, personally, all it is is just about coming and talking to the people. Get out and talk to the people. I know right now within New Brunswick, I don't have the ability to go and talk to the premier, to talk to the MPs and the MLAs. We don't have that, because they don't recognize—this is just me speaking—first nations people, really, in New Brunswick. We're an after fact there, so coming to us first and talking to us first about what's going on would be a good start.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Thanks.

Chair, how much—

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

You have—I'm going to be generous—another 30 seconds.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Thank you to the major projects coalition for the work you do. Being from British Columbia, I know that it's very important work, so thank you, and I'm sure in New Brunswick you do wonderful work also.

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

Very good.

The questioning now moves to MP Romeo Saganash.

[Romeo Saganash, NDP, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to our presenters, and welcome. Thanks for the support for the UN declaration as well as for Bill C-262. It's very much appreciated. Having travelled throughout the country promoting Bill C-262, I know this is also the desire of all indigenous and non-indigenous communities across the country, so you're perfectly in sync with the rest of the country on this one.

I want to start with you, Chief Leween. I want to understand more in detail how your organization arrived at the position of using the UN declaration as the basis or framework for the work that you do on behalf of your members.

I took note of all the expressions that he used about UNDRIP: that your work is inspired by UNDRIP; that it matters for indigenous peoples; that It's the new future; that UNDRIP is about working together, about collaboration and partnership, and so on and so forth.

Were there difficulties or challenges in arriving at that position about using UNDRIP as a framework for the work you do on behalf of the coalition?

[Chief Corrina Leween]

Thank you.

As everything is unfolding, it just fit into what we were doing back home. Without actually knowing that we were using UNDRIP to get the work done, we were doing it already. It came to us as just a blessing—let's say that—because some of the work we do is directly impacted by UNDRIP, and the consent, to speak to your first question, that we get from our members has.... As I said, we grew from 11 to 40 in two years and we are now getting national recognition and interest from all over Canada in looking at our model as one that would work within their communities.

There was no formal way in which we started implementing UNDRIP into our process at major projects coalition; it just happened.

I hope that answers your question.

[Romeo Saganash, NDP, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Yes.

Was there at any time a fear among your members, as a major projects coalition, about free, prior, and informed consent?

[Chief Corrina Leween]

We have fears in our communities anyway. Trust is a big issue because of all the things that have happened to our people historically: major projects in their territories, the inability to look at the environmental assessment process, the stewardship of the land. We had that fear. As we deliver our message, it's becoming clearer to the people back home, and as I said nationally, that we are an organization that can take some of the fear and mistrust out of their business decision, their ability to access capital, and all the technical services that they don't have and don't have the ability to get advice on.

[Romeo Saganash, NDP, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Finally, has the UN declaration helped in forging the partnerships that are required for major projects between your communities and governments and promoters?

[Chief Corrina Leween]

Absolutely. We're here in Ottawa now, and that's what we're doing: pounding the pavement to get in the door of government proponents. Back home we do the same, and we allow our community members access to the information that we gather. It has been instrumental in our accessing the technical services and the relationships among the provincial government, the federal government, and our proponents.

[Romeo Saganash, NDP, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you.

Chief Knockwood, you're right that Bill C-262 refers to laws strictly, which have to be consistent with the UN declaration in this country. You suggested that we add policies to that. I agree.

The Prime Minister has talked in a speech about adding another element to laws and policies, namely operational practices, which have to be consistent with the UN declaration. An operational practice is, for example, when the Minister of Justice decides to appeal decisions that are in favour of indigenous peoples. That's an operational practice.

Do you agree that we should also add operational practices to the bill?

[Chief Rebecca Knockwood]

Speaking as one chief, I would think that would be a great idea, to add operational practices, because there have been quite a few injustices done to our people. So that would work.

[Romeo Saganash, NDP, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Maybe to both lawyers, do you think that Bill C-262 adds clarity to everything? I remember the discussions we had back in the days of the early 1980s, when the Constitution Act, 1982, came into effect and the whole concept of aboriginal rights wasn't very clear to me. Do you think Bill C-262 improves on that clarity?

[Derek Simon]

Yes, I think it's our view, and it's in our submission, that it adds clarity by clarifying where consent is required and by putting that concept of free, prior and informed consent in there so the nature of the consent required is also clear. The Supreme Court of Canada has talked about needing to seek consent, but I think UNDRIP spells that out in more detail.

[Romeo Saganash, NDP, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

The questioning now moves to MP T.J. Harvey.

[TJ Harvey, Liberal, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to all our witnesses for being here today.

I want to start with Chief Knockwood.

I want to reference some of your earlier remarks regarding specific projects in New Brunswick. Being the member of Parliament from Tobique—Mactaquac, I have a very good working relationship with both Chief Paul and—

[Chief Rebecca Knockwood]

Chief Ross.

[TJ Harvey, Liberal, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Yes, Chief Ross, as well as Chief Candice Paul. I think that we work collaboratively despite some differences of opinion on multiple subjects. I think that we overall work very collaboratively together, and in the spirit of collaboration we're certainly putting our best foot forward. You referenced the Sisson project, energy east, and fracking as three specific instances where we've had trouble in New Brunswick. I want to get your opinion on how you felt Bill C-262 could have played a more positive role in the development of any of those projects or how you feel that those projects were adversely affected by its lack.

[Chief Rebecca Knockwood]

Okay, so with the three—

[TJ Harvey, Liberal, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Individually.