Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on May 29th, 2018

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Thank you for the question, because I think it's very important that I get to explain that as we've been out on the rights recognition and implementation engagement we've been very clear that this is not the issue of national indigenous organizations. We have met with rights holders, treaty groups as treaty groups, but also hereditary chiefs. We have met with women and youth.

We are trying to get back to the indigenous legal practices and customs, the role of women in communities. We are very clear that if we're going to get this rights recognition framework right, we have to listen directly to the rights holders. That's how we have organized the engagement.

[Georgina Jolibois, NDP, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Today the government made a very important decision on the Kinder Morgan pipeline. As an indigenous person who pays taxes across Canada—as a Canadian—do I have the right to ask for a dividend payment to be coming to me now that, as taxpayers, we will be owning part of the Kinder Morgan dividends?

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

It's an excellent question—

[Georgina Jolibois, NDP, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

We're going to be making money.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

—but these kinds of economic opportunities, again, are about opting in. To see some of what's happening right away, of indigenous communities wanting to become part of it, to buy into it, and then have their communities have the advantages is hugely important as we've seen with many successful communities coast to coast to coast. This is an opportunity for communities to decide how they see their future and I think we are going to see much more of this type of entrepreneurship and taking advantage of opportunities as we go forward. I think everybody is understanding that good projects go forward, such as in Nunavut and some of the communities.

An example is the gold mine near Cambridge Bay. When the rights holders are equity partners in it and the jobs go to their citizens, those end up providing certainty for the project and end up being the new way forward.

[Georgina Jolibois, NDP, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

I understand the environment and I've heard consistently from the government that the environment and the economy go hand in hand.

As a member of a first nation who grew up on the trapline with families that still practise that tradition of hunting, trapping, and fishing for sustenance, when I hear about the type of language the government is using, it does not resonate with the first nations, the Métis, and the Inuit who are really struggling with making ends meet. When they're struggling with receiving their payments to pay their rent or their power bill, or other things, and when a family member is lost to suicide or a family doesn't qualify in the sixties scoop settlement because of the wording, how can the government justify spending $4.5 billion on a pipeline, my tax dollars, because I do pay tax? The first nations, the single moms, the elders, the moms and dads and youth who have to pay for their education, who have to pay for food and transportation, and the list goes on, are upset with the lack of support coming from the government.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

The 43 first nations that signed on to the creation of this pipeline did it because they felt that this was jobs for their people and economic opportunity. You are quite right. It's coast to coast to coast. When there are these gaps in socio-economic outcomes, we do need to do better.

That's why, as you know, in August, the Prime Minister decided to dissolve INAC so that Dr. Philpott could focus on closing the economic gaps and on the social determinants of health, and move on housing and water and educational outcomes, while I am able to focus on self-determination, knowing that communities do way better if they're making these decisions themselves.

That is why I think—

[Georgina Jolibois, NDP, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Thank you, Minister. I have less than one minute here.

Some of these groups, again, the AFN, the MNC, and the ITK, are not responsible for the delivery of programs and services in their communities. How do you recognize their making decisions on our behalf, on behalf of first nations, Métis, and Inuit across Canada, when they're not yet responsible for the delivery of programs and services, for how the programs and services are run in their communities?

Please be clear on that.

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

There is no time for an answer.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

I think the AFN has been very clear that they are not a rights holder.

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

Questioning now moves to MP T.J. Harvey.

[TJ Harvey, Liberal, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Actually, it goes to Gary.

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

It looks as though the list got changed.

MP Anandasangaree.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Madam Minister and the team, welcome back.

I want to pick up on the conversation with respect to pipelines. Could you elaborate on what's happening with the announcement today? In fact, if I understand it, in terms of what was announced, it's an interim measure.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Yes. It's an interim measure to allow the certainty to get the pipeline built, such that until the time there would be other governance and ownership of the pipeline, including, as we've heard today, the interests a number of indigenous communities have expressed in making sure their economic interests, say in northern Alberta or Saskatchewan, are able to make it to tidewater. Obviously first the shareholders of Kinder Morgan have to take a vote. Then it will be interesting, as this investment is viewed to be a good investment, that eventually Canada would sell the asset to a willing buyer.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

In referring to your notes, Madam Minister, you had indicated that currently 65 recognitions of indigenous rights and self-determination discussions are in place. This appears to be quite a bit higher than what you reported last time. Can you indicate the nature of these discussions? I think there are about 15 new ones; 48 was the last number, if I'm not mistaken.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

It's been very exciting, and that's why we have needed the additional resources within the budget to deal with those tables.

What's exciting is that different communities are coming together to talk about different things: the 23 Anishinabe communities that want to build their own school board, the coastal first nations that want to work on their fishery, many communities wanting to talk about asserting their jurisdiction on the child welfare system or other priorities in their communities. This is almost a sectoral approach, which replaces the comprehensive claims process, which as you know was very unsuccessful and flawed, where people spent 20 years and $30 million to not quite get over the finish line.

That's the other reason, rather than doing it as loans, that we've needed the resources to fund those discussions, such that when we do complete an agreement, they are not handed a big invoice for how much it cost to get there.

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

Thank you.

The bells have begun to ring. We would require unanimous consent to continue. I'd ask the committee whether that's the desire or if we wish to adjourn.

MP McLeod.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Madam Chair, before we discuss whether we would give unanimous consent, I would like to know that if there were any additional rounds, how much time would be given. I understand there are about four minutes. Would we be talking 10 minutes?

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

The question was whether we would have Minister Bennett back, or—

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

No, if it would be 10 minutes into the bells that the unanimous consent would be four versus five, or....

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

Do we want to go to 4:15?

Gary.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Yes, an additional 10 minutes are fine, Madam Chair. I would request that I be permitted to complete my questions, and then the remaining time to be—

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

You have just less than four minutes.

All right, go ahead, please.