Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on May 29th, 2018

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

Thank you.

We'll open the questioning with MP Will Amos.

[William Amos, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

Thank you, Minister Philpott, and to your hard-working civil servants. We really appreciate your coming before us.

I take your message that we need to back up statements, words, and symbols with financial means to achieve the objectives of a new relationship and a long-term effort towards reconciliation. Communities that I represent are very focused on the day-to-day, like the house they live in, the water coming out of their tap or otherwise, their source of electricity, and the schooling opportunities that they have.

While I've reviewed the main estimates, I want to focus my questions on practical issues that my constituents would want me to ask, given that I have this opportunity on the record to address you.

The Algonquins of Barriere Lake, in particular the community of Rapid Lake, have been identified as a really challenged community in the riding of Pontiac. It's the most northerly community in the riding. It's about two and a half hours north of where we sit right now. They're on diesel power. They've had many housing issues. Last year, their school was closed for many weeks as a result of mould. It's a community that's under third party management.

I know that there are ongoing negotiations around the third party management aspect. I'd love it if there could be some form of update provided on that. Subsequently, I also want to know a bit more about discussions that I believe are linked to these negotiations that are under way on third party management, particularly discussions around the issue of achieving a more secure power source through the bringing in of hydro lines. At the end of the day, their diesel power is not reliable. That's the source of the mould because the pipes break when the power goes down. From your own officials, I know that they're concerned about that power source, which holds up investments in infrastructure, like housing, schools, etc.

Could you please comment on that for the sake of my good constituents in the community of Rapid Lake?

[Jane Philpott, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

Thank you very much for the question and for your concern for the people of this community, who are clearly facing some very serious challenges in terms of the day-to-day issues of their community, by what you describe.

I am happy to report that it is my understanding that, on the matter of the dependency on diesel, which is a very serious problem, there is work under way to be able to connect this community to the hydroelectric grid. I'd be happy to get my office to work with you to get you some more details in terms of the timing on that, but I understand that discussions are under way on that matter. It is a really good news story that this will be able to happen, not only to bring reliable power and address issues like mould, but also, of course, to deal with the impacts of diesel on the environment.

I think there's good news coming in that regard.

On the issue of third party management, again, this is an area where I'd be happy to have follow-up conversations with you, as to how the community can be supported in this area. I'm happy to say that this is an area in which the department has actually supported some very effective background work through the First Nations Financial Management Board in working with communities who have been in various forms of intervention, including third party management. The approach that the FNFMB has had has been to build capacity and governance, solidarity, and good management practices within communities that have faced various forms of intervention.

In fact, a very little known reality is that when we formed government, there were 12 communities across the country that were in third party management. The FNFMB has worked with those communities. Through training and capacity building, there are now only two communities in the whole country on third party management. I think that's good news for those 10 that have been lifted out of that intervention state, and they're continuing to progress.

If I'm not mistaken, I believe the community that you're referring to is one of the two that remains. It may be worthwhile to share this conversation with the leaders in that community, in terms of what we've seen to be successful in working with a first nations institution to be able to address those issues. It's my understanding that the department is helping to sort through some of those details, but I'd be happy to make sure that we have follow-up.

[William Amos, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

Thank you very much.

I'd like to ask a further question about clean water, to understand better how your department goes about prioritizing clean water infrastructure across communities in Canada.

For example, the community of Kitigan Zibi, another first nation community in the riding of Pontiac, has received significant investments in water. Pipes were brought in for a major portion of that community, with an investment of around $5 million in 2016. There's more to do, but I recognize that there are other communities across Canada that are facing severe boil water advisories, so I just want to understand better. How does the department go about determining where the priorities ought to be?

[Jane Philpott, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

Access to clean water is an issue that Canadians are quite concerned about, but it involves more than just the water systems themselves. It involves, as you say, investments in issues like waste water, which ultimately affects access to clean water as well. We now have close to $2 billion in new investments in this area. The public has been focusing on lifting these long-term drinking water advisories, which I think is a really smart place to focus. Obviously, we have a lot of very intense work happening on that, but I want to assure you that we're not forgetting to also invest in areas like water distribution systems.

In fact, I was in Six Nations a few months ago announcing investments in water distribution systems. Last week I was in Maskwacis, near Edmonton, announcing investments in a waste-water system, which is the largest single investment in any kind of infrastructure project in that community. There is a broad range—

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

Thank you.

[Jane Philpott, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

—and we will talk more about that in the future.

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

Okay.

The questioning now moves to MP Arnold Viersen.

I'll try to give you signals when we're getting close.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Thank you, Minister, for being here today.

It's been two and a half years since your department ceased requiring first nations to comply with the First Nations Financial Transparency Act. Up until then compliance rates were over 90%. Can you tell me how many of the 630 first nations are in compliance today?

[Jane Philpott, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

As you may know, this was something that Minister Bennett spoke to when she had this role previously. We know that well over 90% of communities are in full compliance, but we have actually taken a different approach to this issue.

Maybe Paul can give us the exact number.

[Paul Thoppil]

It's 91% out of the 630, which is around the same as last year.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

It's around the same, okay.

In his mandate letter to you, the Prime Minister said, “We have also committed to set a higher bar for openness and transparency in government.” I find that interesting, seeing as you're not enforcing the transparency act for our first nations brothers and sisters.

Do you believe in the rule of law, essentially?

[Jane Philpott, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

Certainly I believe in the rule of law. I would argue that people's desire to have open and accountable and transparent governance is somewhat universal. In fact, first nation governments want just as much as our government does to make sure they are accountable to the citizens they are called to serve.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Does the charter apply on reserve?

[Jane Philpott, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

The Charter of Rights and Freedoms applies to all Canadians.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

On reserve?

[Jane Philpott, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

It applies to all Canadians. Can you tell me specifically what that has to do with your question?

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Section 15 of the charter says, “Every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination”. Travis Gladue is a member of the Bigstone Cree Nation, in Treaty 8 land. He's been in contact with me for over a year, trying to get his band's financial information. Is he not entitled to the protection of section 15?

[Jane Philpott, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

People who have governments that serve them, whether they be municipal, provincial, federal, or indigenous governments, expect those governments to be accountable and respectful of the need to show how spending is done. This is no exception. In fact, I would say that the approach we have taken in terms of a respectful relationship in building that financial transparency and accountability, using first nations financial institutions like the financial management board, has actually been far more successful than the previous approach. I described to you already the fact that the FNFMB has brought 10 communities out of third party management. We've also seen now well over 100 communities who are accredited under the FNFMB for their governance.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

That's great, Minister, but what about the individuals like Travis, who's concerned about his band resources?

[Jane Philpott, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

I would give that person the same advice that I would give to any person, whether they are concerned about the spending of their municipal government, their provincial or federal governments: they should have expectations.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

My municipality's financial information is available in 30 seconds on a Google search. His band's financial information is unavailable to him.

[Jane Philpott, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

Then he certainly should be speaking to the leaders that are governing his first nation and hold them accountable.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Do you not play a role in that in terms of financial transparency because of the act? If you don't want to do that job, should you not repeal the act?

[Jane Philpott, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

Our government is establishing with first nations a nation-to-nation relationship based on the recognition of rights, including the right to self-determination.