Evidence of meeting #121 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was north.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal MaryAnn Mihychuk
Thank you.
We're now going to move on to MP questions, starting with MP Mike Bossio.
Liberal
Mike Bossio Liberal Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON
Actually, I'd like to start right where you finished off. As a result of climate change, we see huge, significant changes happening in the north, with melting ice and permafrost and the impact of that. You're saying that we need to look at innovation as far as infrastructure in the north is concerned. Can you give us some examples of the innovation that's happening?
Is it happening? If it is, what are some examples?
Dr. Chris Derksen Research Scientist, Climate Processes Section, Climate Research Division, Department of the Environment
I'll give a few examples. One of the key things with permafrost is that, as it changes, the road surfaces change and ice road shipping seasons are shorter.
There are two issues—
Research Scientist, Climate Processes Section, Climate Research Division, Department of the Environment
Yes, exactly. You get frost heave and slumping on the land surface.
Changes in permafrost also impact what happens to the water on the land surface. When permafrost melts, that water can now drain into the soil, and that changes a lot of things on the land surface.
How we mitigate that is difficult. One example is through the use of ice roads. We know that we need a certain thickness of ice before we can drive a truck safely on an ice road. To improve the speed at which that ice forms, when the ice is sufficiently thick in the fall you can remove snow from the ice surface and the ice grows faster. There are management techniques that we can employ to mitigate the effects of climate change on things such as the use of ice roads for shipping.
I would say they are in their infancy in many places, but there are many ideas. There was also a Transport Canada report on shipping in the north, on transportation in the north, that my colleagues here might speak to more.
Liberal
Mike Bossio Liberal Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON
Actually, I was going to ask about that. As far as ports and things like that are concerned, it must cause significant difficulties in building a port when you have a constantly shifting landscape.
Director General, Strategic Policy, Department of Transport
It does. Given that there aren't really any port facilities in the territories per se, you really see the impacts around runways. You see the impacts as well on roads and ice roads. The sustainability of those ice roads is called into question. As my colleague indicated, it can come down to operational practices, maybe needing to change how you plow or clear snow.
It might also change the building material you use for those facilities. You might deploy different kinds of supporting infrastructure to help keep the permafrost cold. There can be piping that draws cold air down into and underneath infrastructure to make sure that the permafrost stays cold underneath and that water is channelled away from major infrastructure assets so that you're not getting further degradation from—
Liberal
Mike Bossio Liberal Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON
Now that we're moving toward open waters in the Arctic, is there a consideration of building ports in the north?
Director General, Strategic Policy, Department of Transport
There's a significant investment going into Iqaluit right now in terms of a deepwater port, which will greatly help our resupply efforts. Taking these kinds of building techniques into consideration is important for those kinds of facilities.
Liberal
Mike Bossio Liberal Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON
In looking at that, as we start to move to these open waters and those difficulties, what kind of environmental regulatory practices are we going to put in place to ensure that we're doing this in an environmentally sustainable way? How does that fit into the oceans protection plan, for example?
Director General, Policy, Planning and Partnerships Directorate, Meteorological Service of Canada, Department of the Environment
Unfortunately, I'm not prepared to speak to the oceans protection plan, but I can tell you about one of the things we are doing in meteorological services. Because we are responsible for monitoring the environment and the atmosphere, it is very important that we continue to use the most up-do-date equipment to monitor atmospheric conditions, ice conditions and other conditions like that so we can provide the data that is needed to engineers and others so that some of this construction can be done in a way that is more sustainable and future-looking.
Liberal
Mike Bossio Liberal Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON
What about from an environmental protection standpoint? You're measuring and monitoring the impacts on the environment and the changes that are happening around climate change. As these changes happen and we start to open up the north to development, what are we doing to mitigate any potential environmental impacts of that development, increased shipping, etc.? Do we have a plan around that? Is that part of the oceans protection plan, by any chance?
Director General, Canadian Coast Guard, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I'll touch on that. Across the table here, we all have a part in the oceans protection plan.
From the Canadian Coast Guard's perspective, we are investing in areas such as communication. On the communications side, we're making sure that we understand where shipping is, so that when they get into trouble, they can contact us easily, contact the SAR system, and we can respond effectively to that.
On the regulatory side, which Transport can speak to, we can make sure it doesn't happen in the end. The idea is that there are regulations in place that regulate how ships are built to withstand ice so that environmental issues don't occur. We are also investing in new, modern environmental protection equipment, so that when something does happen in the Arctic, we are able to respond to it effectively.
The other part about the investment I talked about was that we can't do it alone. When something significant happens in the Arctic, all Arctic countries come together to respond to that, and that's why you have forums like the Arctic Council, the Arctic Coast Guard Forum, and the Arctic agreements that allow us not only to respond effectively to issues that happen in Canada's Arctic, but also to help each other when it happens on somebody else's Arctic territories.
Liberal
Mike Bossio Liberal Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON
My concern is that the Arctic is such a fragile ecosystem that if we're only monitoring weather conditions and that aspect of it.... If we're looking at development and everything else, what are we doing to protect this fragile ecosystem? I think it's an important factor that needs to be....
Director General, Policy, Planning and Partnerships Directorate, Meteorological Service of Canada, Department of the Environment
Certainly, as my colleague said, the three departments and others all play a role in this. In terms of some of the things that Environment and Climate Change Canada is doing, we spoke about weather forecasts, and that is indeed very critical. One of the things we have done under the oceans protection plan is bolster our ability to provide marine weather forecasts to ensure that mariners have the most up-to-date information possible so they can avoid situations of extreme weather, which could lead to accidents and mishaps. Also, with the ice service, that's an area in which we're looking to continually improve the ice products that are provided, again, to enable safe navigation.
The whole concept of collecting environmental data and the infrastructure that I spoke about is critical to providing some of these services that the department then provides.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal MaryAnn Mihychuk
Thank you.
That wraps up your questioning time.
We move to MP Kevin Waugh.
Conservative
Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK
I want to thank the three departments for coming here.
The Arctic is certainly different from most parts of Canada, as you know.
The last group talked about diesel. I'm glad the Department of the Environment talked about the shift to solar power not always being easily transferrable to the north. Thank you for that. Southerners often think that their plan fits elsewhere, and it doesn't.
When we talk about diesel, I want to know what part of diesel power contributes to climate change in northern Canada. It's been there for decades. What part of the use of diesel power contributes to climate change up north, and what would natural resources extraction contribute to that?
Research Scientist, Climate Processes Section, Climate Research Division, Department of the Environment
I'll start to answer that question.
I think the major thing to keep in mind here is that the process driving the enhanced warming that we're seeing in the Arctic is not because of activities that are occurring in the Arctic.
We're seeing amplified warming in the north. The process of why this is happening.... There are a number of positive climate feedbacks. The scientific consensus and understanding of those is strong. It's not based on greenhouse gas emissions that are occurring in the Arctic, but it is a function of a global increase. In that sense, the Arctic is located in a place where the physical processes combine to amplify the warming in that region.
Conservative
Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK
I think you know where I'm going.
Southerners have a different opinion on the north. You talked about diesel, so I just want to know. Do we know what diesel is doing up there?
When you study greenhouse gases, do you have anything that we can go on?
Research Scientist, Climate Processes Section, Climate Research Division, Department of the Environment
We'd have to go back to provide actual, hard numbers.
Research Scientist, Climate Processes Section, Climate Research Division, Department of the Environment
Again, the important thing to remember here is that the process of enhanced warming occurring in the north is a function of global processes. It's not because of what's happening in the north.
Conservative
