Evidence of meeting #47 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was money.
A video is available from Parliament.
9:40 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal MaryAnn Mihychuk
Thank you.
We're going to wrap up the questioning with MP Romeo Saganash. You have three minutes.
9:40 a.m.
NDP
Romeo Saganash NDP Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC
Three minutes, okay. That allows me to clarify one thing.
There is a lot of information stemming from the cross-examination of the federal officials on the motions of non-compliance. As we know, $382 million was announced over three years for Jordan's principle. As of January 17, 2016, over $5 million was spent, and an additional $6 million approved. Can you confirm for me that all of the funds that are not used are sent back to consolidated revenue?
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON
It will be re-profiled. This is Jordan's principle money, and it needs to be spent on Jordan's principle, and it will be spent on Jordan's principle. Because there's only—
9:45 a.m.
NDP
Romeo Saganash NDP Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC
But it's not. If not, what happens? Is it sent back to revenue?
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON
It goes into next year's money for Jordan's principle. As we identify more and more children—
9:45 a.m.
NDP
Romeo Saganash NDP Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC
That's not what your officials said in court under oath. We found that in the cross-examination of your officials. They confirmed that all funds that are unused by the end of the fiscal year will be removed from the fund and transferred to Canada's consolidated revenue fund.
9:45 a.m.
Chief Financial Officer, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
That is technically correct if it's not re-profiled.
9:45 a.m.
Chief Financial Officer, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
That is correct. But if it's re-profiled, then it's moved into future years. There's a process of re-profiling, which involves working with the central agencies, the Department of Finance and the Treasury Board, to move that forward. Technically, the answer is correct, that if it's not re-profiled, it goes back to the CRF, but it is being re-profiled.
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON
So that $382 million over three years is $382 million over three years dedicated to Jordan's principle.
9:45 a.m.
NDP
Romeo Saganash NDP Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC
The other thing we've learned in this case is that Canada has not taken any further action to implement the order that refers to the need to “engage” with first nations—a word that use a lot in your speaking notes. The officials also confirm that Canada has no formal definition of “engagement”. If that is the case, I wouldn't want to engage with you, Madam.
9:45 a.m.
Some hon. members
Oh, oh!
9:45 a.m.
NDP
Romeo Saganash NDP Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC
What does it mean to you? That's the question.
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON
Engagement is a recognition of rights, respect, co-operation, and partnership. It means, how do we move in co-creating policies, co-creating a budget? How do we move on this?
One of the things we did, as I was just mentioning, was in the child welfare reforms. We made available $100,000 for each of the child welfare agencies to (a) determine their needs, at $25,000 each, and (b) with $75,000 each, to build a language and culture program for their clients. This is a kind of engagement in which you actually say there's this money on offer, so tell us what you need so we can build a program based on your needs going forward.
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal MaryAnn Mihychuk
Thank you so much.
We've gone over the time. I want to thank the minister for taking the time to come to committee.
If you wish to remain, we could probably find the time to keep you.
9:45 a.m.
Some hon. members
Oh, oh!
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal MaryAnn Mihychuk
You have an open invitation to come back to committee. Thank you very much.
We're going to suspend for five minutes, and then we will be back to question the department.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal MaryAnn Mihychuk
We'll call the committee back into session.
We have until until about 10:40 for this round. We'll take care of the votes after that and be done at 10:45.
We have been joined by additional staff from the department: Ms. Isaak and Mr. Smith.
Welcome.
We're going to start the questioning with a seven-minute round by MP Michael McLeod.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
Michael McLeod Liberal Northwest Territories, NT
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I was expecting a bit of a presentation, but I guess we're going to go directly into the questions.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal MaryAnn Mihychuk
I beg your pardon. That's true.
There is an opportunity to do a 10-minute presentation, if you wish.
9:50 a.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Madam Chair, with your permission, maybe we could walk you through the deck we have provided.