Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on March 10th, 2016

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

I think there were communities that met the criteria of remote and rural, and I guess it's 15 more that we've identified. If there are others, I'd like to know about them, but I think right now there were 15 communities that were identified as not being in the food mail program and therefore didn't qualify for nutrition north, so step one is to include those and then figure out how we fix the program.

[David Yurdiga, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

So these additional communities are being added to the program, and we've got an additional $40 million. People on the current program are benefiting from the savings on the food, but is there not going to be any additional funding for the communities on it? Forty million dollars isn't a lot of money over four years. If you've got 15 more communities, are they going to be taking away from the current program? Ten million dollars a year goes quickly when you have an additional 15 communities. Adding communities it will actually reduce the amount of subsidies for other communities in the north.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

We're increasing the money and we're also increasing the number of communities, but we know that it has to be dealt with differently.

As you know, the Auditor General wasn't too happy with the value for money and whether this was actually saving money. What I keep hearing is people saying that they used to be able to feed their families, but now, when they take their shopping carts out at the end of the week, it seems to cost more. Even though certain foods were subsidized, because of the cost of feeding a family and dealing with other foods and staples, it isn't working.

I think a revision has to take place, but I think we do have to include those other communities. Then we've got to figure out whether it's a social program or a fairness program. If it's a social program, then is it going to the people who need it most? Are we dealing with hungry kids or not? When 70% of kids in Nunavut come from food-insecure homes, we've got to do something else.

[The Chair, Liberal, Andy Fillmore]

Thank you, Minister.

The final five-minute question is from Mike Bossio.

[Mike Bossio, Liberal, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Thank you so much, Minister, for being here today and answering our questions fully. We appreciate that.

With regard to the review of legislation and the nation-to-nation relationship and all the ways that we are trying to change our relationship with indigenous peoples in Canada, I think that at the root it is self-determination and being able to expand it so that first nations have self-determination over education, health, resource extraction, environmental protection, etc. In this legislative review and in your relationship with indigenous peoples, is that part and parcel of the end goal of what we are trying to accomplish?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Absolutely. I thank you for that, because I think it gives us an opportunity to talk about what happens when first nations or communities feel in control of the choices in setting their own priorities.

In British Columbia, the Chandler and Lalonde report showed that communities that were in charge of health, education, and justice and were back doing their ceremonies saw their suicide rate drop dramatically.

It's a matter of a sense of control over their lives that gives people hope. We know the idea of secure personal cultural identity is the key to overcoming social determinants and to healthy choices, good health outcomes, good education outcomes, and good economic outcomes. It is about being in control and about sovereignty.

[Mike Bossio, Liberal, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

In being able to do that, though.... I notice that a large chunk of the estimates is grants. I look at that and I wonder what kind of long-term sustainable funding is there through a grant-like process for there to be self-determination? Are those funds dedicated dollars to specific purposes or specific nations? It is very difficult to understand what that really means.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

As you saw in the mandate letter, I am charged with evolving a new fiscal relationship. You've heard many first nations say they would rather have a transfer than little grants that give them a little money for this, a little money for that, but they don't dare move money from here over to here, because they're going to get caught. It doesn't work. We are seeing communities robbing Peter to pay Paul in order to address emerging urgent needs in their communities.

That is where we are hoping to go. Whether it is land management or moving along the continuum to self-government, that is what we are hoping. The role of the Minister of Justice at the AFN, under governance, was actually being able to help people, when they are ready and able, to take more and more control and to build that capacity in first nations.

[Mike Bossio, Liberal, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Finally—and I know I am running out of time—we have talked about lifting the 2% funding cap. Once again, this leads into the same discussion, in that there are huge deficits now that have accumulated in many of the budgets of first nations. Do we just start from a new slate and say that from here on we are going to have a new funding formula, or do we go back and say that these are the deficits, and we are going to try to eliminate those deficits so that it's a level playing field and they're moving forward? Does it become a permanent type of funding formula? How is that going to work?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

As you know, the 2% cap was actually an escalator, but then it didn't keep up. Frankly, in the devastating budget of 1995, the prime minister and the finance minister had to choose. In order to protect my department from across-the-board cuts that were happening to every other department, they put in this 2% escalator to make sure that the fastest-growing population was getting a little bit of an increase, while all the other departments were being cut.

That said, it stayed in place way too long. Kelowna would have lifted it, but now we have to stop the music and start again. We hope that the investments we are making in budget 2016 will begin that process, but we also hope that going forward it will be much more in keeping with the fastest-growing population and its needs.

[The Chair, Liberal, Andy Fillmore]

Thank you, Minister. Thanks for the question, Mike.

The next segment is a three-minute question, and it goes to Romeo Saganash. Romeo, are you sharing your time with your colleague, Sheri Benson?

[Romeo Saganash, NDP, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

No, I'll take up the three minutes, Mr. Chair. Thank you.

I want to complete our discussion on FPIC, because having been in this business for 35 years, I know that clarity is important for everyone. I know that clarity is good for development and it's good for the economy of this country.

UNDRIP was adopted by the United Nations in 2007. FPIC is part of it. TRC makes UNDRIP a centrepiece. As a matter of fact, they say it should be the framework of reconciliation in this country.

Your mandate letter makes a reference to it. It requires you to begin with the implementation of the UN declaration. The Prime Minister spoke before the Assembly of First Nations and made reference to UNDRIP.

There's a recent report from the Committee on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights that was presented recently on March 4. One of the concluding observations and recommendations of this committee refers to FPIC. It states:

The Committee recommends that the State party fully recognize the right to free, prior and informed consent of indigenous peoples in its laws and policies and apply it in practice.

That's the recommendation from that committee.

Minister, as you are probably aware, I introduced a private member's bill last year in the previous Parliament about UNDRIP to ensure the laws of Canada were compatible with the provisions of UNDRIP.

In the spirit of reconciliation, I told you I would come back with my private member's bill. In the spirit of reconciliation, I offered co-sponsorship of that private member's bill to one of the members from the government side. That was a sincere offer in the spirit of reconciliation.

How is the thinking on that coming along?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Step one, I'm pleased to report to the member that in November 2015 we joined the consensus without reservation for the first time in five years in terms of the annual general assembly. I look forward to having the conversation in terms of how we go forward with you and your bill.

I know we are committed to implementing it, and implementing it across government departments, so we're happy to work with you and to see where we can get with this in our genuine commitment to make this measure happen.

[The Chair, Liberal, Andy Fillmore]

Thank you, Minister, and thank you for the question, Romeo.

That brings us to the bottom of the first order of questions, which means we are going to reset and go back to the top and have seven-minute questions.

I guess we're going to fit about two questions in. Whatever question is in process at 5:15 p.m. will be the last question, and then we'll go to voting on the supplementary estimates.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

I have a point of order. I would ask for the unanimous consent to go to five minutes for this final round. It might get us an extra person or so.

[The Chair, Liberal, Andy Fillmore]

It would, in fact, get us one extra person. Is there unanimous consent to go to five minutes in this round?

There appears to be consent, so we'll start with Monsieur Massé for five minutes.

[Rémi Massé, Liberal, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Madam Minister, thank you for agreeing to meet with us and for bringing your department colleagues. We are appreciate it very much.

Obviously you have addressed a lot of important and pressing topics in your presentation and in the answers you have given. There is one issue that is important to me. I represent a riding that includes half of the Gaspé Peninsula and that is home to three Mi'kmaq communities. I had the opportunity to meet with them several times during the election campaign and afterwards. Education is an important issue for these communities.

Could you please talk about the education programs you are exploring?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

I expect that the 2016 budget will help to better meet the demands and true needs of schools on the reserves when it comes to literacy and numeracy—I'm not sure if that is the right word.

[Hélène Laurendeau]

You might call it arithmetic.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Very well.

There is also preparing children in day care for school. It is very important that children be ready when they start school, and it is also important to close the gap between students in indigenous communities and other students in the provinces and territories. It is very important, and it is vital for our government and Canada's future.

[Rémi Massé, Liberal, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Thank you.

I have a supplementary question.

In the supplementary estimates (C), $40 million is allocated to first nations education, and this program is awarded in grants and contributions. As I understand it, there are two and a half weeks left before the end of March. How will the department be able to spend $40 million in two and a half weeks? You spoke about a broken system, and perhaps this is a concrete example of an issue in that respect.

[Hélène Laurendeau]

The funds in question here have already been committed by the department. We are asking Parliament to approve the supplementary estimates to replenish the coffers. We have already done what we often do: once we receive authorization from Treasury Board, we started committing the funds. The funds will be spent by the end of the fiscal year.

[Rémi Massé, Liberal, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Okay, perfect.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

They are increased mid-year. That is very important.

[Rémi Massé, Liberal, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Great. That's clear.

Thank you.