Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on March 20th, 2018

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

I want to go into the tuberculosis crisis in the north. You alluded to it in your notes. We know there was a 15-year-old Inuit girl who died in January. I understand the rates are about 10% and obviously, completely unacceptable in Canada. What are you going to do about it?

[Jane Philpott, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

Well, thank you for raising this really important issue.

It happens that world tuberculosis day is this Saturday, which hopefully we will all acknowledge. We, in Canada, have a shameful story in terms of the severe rates of tuberculosis among Canada's Inuit. In fact, if you look at 2016 data, if you compare the rates in Inuit to the non-indigenous Canadian-born population, they are 300 times higher, and as you described, these teenagers are dying.

What are we going to do? This has been one of the priority areas of our Inuit-crown partnership relationship, so I'm working very closely along with my officials and my other colleagues, like the Honourable Ginette Petitpas Taylor, with the Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami on a TB elimination task force. We have put together a plan that is still being finalized to work on the elimination of tuberculosis. Some of that work has already begun. In fact, very recently in Qikiqtarjuaq Nunavut a clinic took place that screened almost everyone in the entire community. I can get you the data in terms of the number of active tuberculosis cases and latent tuberculosis cases that were detected.

There's a very broad-based plan that involves screening, addressing, obviously, using new medical treatment, as well as things like housing and so many of the other social issues.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

I remember when Harold Calla was before this committee. On this side we support investments in terms of education and child welfare. Obviously we're going to be watching very carefully to make sure these are effective investments and that you're actually getting the outcomes you want. I remember Harold Calla coming here and saying that there will never be enough money to deal with the housing issues and that economic development is absolutely critical. I would say reconciliation requires economic reconciliation. I can see there is a whole lot of focus on programs and support, which I think are important and necessary, and very limited mentions of anything around the economic...creating the opportunities for communities to create their own future. I don't see any focus from your government in that area, or very minimal.

[Jane Philpott, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

Thank you for raising that.

I think housing is perhaps one of the best examples of that. You're right that we're not going to address the problem simply by putting more money into building houses all the time.

We obviously need money to address the housing gap. When it comes to first nations on reserve, there's $200 million a year for the next three years. We gave that in a time-limited way because we've said we want to work with them over the next number of months to develop a specific strategy to do exactly what you're saying, to ask how we can build homes in different ways, make better use of local resources, build skills for local individuals to be able to design and construct those homes effectively, and even look at innovative methods of land tenure agreements and ownership over homes.

I will acknowledge that there's much more work to be done in that area. It will take that kind of innovation to be able to close those gaps.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

The new fiscal relationship, is that under you or Ms. Bennett?

[Jane Philpott, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

That is under me.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

One of the things you indicated in your joint statement was the importance of accountability to communities, that there be an accountability structure required nation to nation but also between nations and communities.

I am so hugely disappointed that after two and a half years.... You said you didn't like our financial transparency act. You've spent two and a half years at a table and you still say that you need to talk, that you really don't have anything that's going to help people like Charmaine Stick. You noticed Thunderbird; they decided to give him the information rather than go to courts. How can you justify that was a priority?

It's two and a half years and you've had a lot of talks, a lot of fiscal tables. It obviously isn't a priority if the tables haven't come up with something that's going to be accountable. There are significant dollars going into communities. Those community members need to know that those dollars are effective. It's a principle of democracy. Two and a half years later, there is nothing. You didn't like what we had, but there's nothing.

[Jane Philpott, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

Thank you very much for giving me a chance to clarify what is happening in that area. It is, in fact, the area where there has been a lot of work done. People like Harold Calla and others who are associated with some of the first nations financial institutions have actually done a lot of work on this. We also worked with the Assembly of First Nations and the department on putting out proposals around what this new fiscal relationship would look like. I announced that at the special chiefs assembly in December. It was extremely well received.

I think the first point that I need to emphasize is—you're absolutely right—that transparency and accountability are essential. There is no system of governance amongst any people in the world, be they indigenous or non-indigenous, that doesn't think that good governance involves excellence in accountability, governance, management, and reporting to the people you serve.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

It's not there.

[Jane Philpott, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

It is there. In fact, it's growing all the time through the work that organizations like the First Nations Financial Management Board have been able to do. There are now well over 100 first nations across the country that have received—

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

Thank you.

[Jane Philpott, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

—certification through the FNFMB. It's growing all the time.

[The Chair, Liberal, MaryAnn Mihychuk]

Questioning now moves to MP Niki Ashton.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Minister.

I will be sharing my time with my colleague, Georgina Jolibois.

I would like to raise two key points, ones where we're very concerned that the government isn't going nearly far enough.

First of all is the crisis that is housing on reserve in particular. While we recognize that there's some fancy new language around distinctions-based housing strategies, the reality is that the funds simply aren't there.

Last week I was at Nisichawayasihk Cree Nation. I was told that there are 500 people on a waiting list for housing, yet this is a community that is moving ahead. They have an innovative program to build housing in the community. It brings folks on board to be able to gain their apprenticeship training, and it uses some new technologies to build these homes. However, they haven't received one cent of federal funding. This is a problem.

This is a crisis that impacts every single first nation. The money that has been committed—around $600 million a year—could translate to possibly one house per first nation, but the reality is that the further north you go, the more expensive it is to build housing. Certainly, we would like to register the inadequacy of federal funds.

What is the federal government planning to do with respect to this housing crisis on first nations? Why is it ignoring the reality and also ignoring innovative programs like the one NCN is pursuing right now?

Second, I had the pleasure of joining you in Cross Lake a couple of years ago where you announced the funding for the new health centre project that, unfortunately, has not moved forward. I was just there a few days ago. People are very concerned. Obviously, the demand for health services is huge, and we would like to move forward as soon as possible. We would like to see your department show leadership right now, given that this project has stalled.

[Jane Philpott, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

Thank you for those two questions. I'm going to address the housing one. Then, in terms of Cross Lake, I'm going to ask my associate deputy to give the latest update on what's going on in Cross Lake because he may be better updated. I know how much they are looking forward to that new facility moving forward.

I absolutely agree with you on what you have raised about housing. There is a massive gap, and it's not going to be met with the kinds of dollars that we've put into it. It's not even going to be met if we were to increase the dollars tenfold. It's going to take innovation.

I really would love to hear more about the group that you're talking about. I would love to hear the specifics about why they are not getting dollars flowing to them. As you know, there has been significant money—in the hundreds of millions per year—going.... We've continued that. The data shows now that in the last couple of years, about 13,000 units have been built or are almost built.

It's going to take creativity. It's going to take things like building opportunities for access to capital, giving the people the opportunity of rent-to-own for example. In fact, one of the things the deputy did as soon as this department started was put together basically a new power team within the department by bringing in outside experts who have done housing both on and off reserve. We look forward to working with them and with anyone you would like to introduce us to who has great ideas on how we're actually going to close that housing gap.

Did you want to give us an update on Cross Lake?

[Sony Perron, Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Yes. For sure.

Initially, when the minister announced the funding for the Cross Lake nursing station replacement, the estimate for the project was around $40 million. When the first nations partner started to do the assessment and the design of the work, it came to the conclusion that $40 million would not be enough. It came back with an additional funding request, which was to increase the funding by $15 million. We have confirmed that this money will flow and will be part of the project, so the project should advance now.

Between the initial commitment and the design phase, the costs increased, so we needed to secure the resources. Now after receiving confirmation, we will be funding.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

I appreciate that. My message to you is that people are waiting for this to be done, urgently, as you can imagine.

[Georgina Jolibois, NDP, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

I want to ask a question. You laid out a really good plan, but for me, as an indigenous woman from a riding, I know for a fact that the wording doesn't meet the needs of northern communities and indigenous communities on and off reserve.

Do you agree that youth suicide is a problem?

[Jane Philpott, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

Absolutely.

[Georgina Jolibois, NDP, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Then why is it that in your budget there's no mention of youth suicide? If your department is addressing youth suicide, why is it clumped in with mental health, and why is there no breakdown for provinces as well as territories? With regard to indigenous youth, we are losing. It is very rampant. We are losing indigenous youth across Canada.

I feel—and I know that young people have said to me too—that the government isn't doing enough.

[Jane Philpott, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

You've raised a very serious matter. There's no question—I don't think any Canadian would deny that the rates of suicide amongst first nations, Inuit, and Métis are at crisis proportions. I would argue that while I accept your dissatisfaction with the number of times it appears in the budget, almost every single thing we're doing speaks in one way or another to mental wellness and to addressing suicide.

[Georgina Jolibois, NDP, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

I'm sorry, but I disagree with you on that, because I know for a fact that the way the budget is broken down, if it's for housing, it goes into housing infrastructure; if it's for other means or the Project Venture, it specifically goes into Project Venture. It doesn't necessarily address the needs of a particular problem.

[Jane Philpott, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

I will go back to that in a minute. There are significant investments in mental wellness and suicide prevention. I look to programs like Choose Life, and we're now $100 million into that program in northern Ontario, for example. We've quadrupled the number of mental wellness teams across the country, and now we have the mental wellness helpline running in the country. There are many ways that we've tried to increase the direct services, and with due respect, because I accept that you are much better informed than I am on the depths and contributors to youth suicide, when we invest in housing, child welfare, health, and education, that actually—

[Georgina Jolibois, NDP, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Obviously on the ground, the realities as such—

[Jane Philpott, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

In the day to day, yes, but in the long run—