Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on May 29th, 2020

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thank you very much.

We'll go to a five-minute round now, first of all with Mr. Zimmer, then Mr. van Koeverden and Mr. Vidal, followed by Mr. Fergus.

Bob Zimmer, please go ahead for five minutes.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Just to clarify, for the Northern Air Transport Association, is Mr. Priestley on today, or is he not available?

[Sébastien Michel]

He's not on today.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Okay. Then I will ask you my questions.

I have before me a letter that was written to me by Mr. Priestley. It's about the requests that were made by your association. I'll just read them out. I wanted to ask you to respond because this letter was written some time ago in reference to COVID and the struggle that your industry was going to have. He says:

The following needs to be initiated immediately: There should also be a suspension of employer payroll deductions including CPP, EI, and WCB for 90 days and the government should speed up the administration of EI benefits.... All Federal excise and carbon taxes on Jet fuel should be temporarily suspended. The Federal Government should subsidize a loan repayment holiday and a subsidy for air operators for the next 90 days so that interest payments on outstanding loans can continue to be made.

Mr. Michel, I would ask you to respond to each one of those three, if those changes indeed came. Again, the request was made some time ago. I just wanted to know your response.

Thank you.

[Sébastien Michel]

I don't think there has been any alleviation on the excise fuel tax, for example. That was an example of how to alleviate the costs for airlines and to do it in a way that would be fair for all the industry. That's on the excise tax. I could add also that there are some of the fees that are additional to it, such as Nav Canada fees or airport fees. If you are operating, of course, you have fuel and fees, so this could be a way to alleviate some of the financial burden.

For what was in the the first part of the letter, could you could remind me?

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

It said that there should also be a suspension of employer payroll deductions, including CPP, EI and WCB, for 90 days. To me, that request was a good request. We saw the same request come from small businesses in my riding. One is Swamp Donkey, which is a company up here. It's an oil field and gas company that asked for that exact thing, because the one thing companies had was cash on hand. They had cash accounts, and they wanted to be able to sustain their businesses, but yet they were going to have to do these quarterly submissions.

How did that go? Did you get your request there?

[Sébastien Michel]

No, we didn't get our request there. I'm not sure about other departments or territories, but mainly not. Of course, as you mentioned, like any other industry right now, one of the challenges is the cash flow. There's the cash flow with the payroll and some of the infrastructure that needs to be kept and the overhead that needs to be paid. It's all a question about cash flow.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Right.

My colleague Mr. Viersen asked you about the carbon tax and the alleviation there. To me, the impact, I don't know if you have a number for that.... What is the impact to your industry, just yearly even, of the current numbers with the carbon tax?

[Sébastien Michel]

Unfortunately, I'm not familiar enough with the carbon tax and the application of the carbon tax at this time, so I cannot provide you off the top of my head with decent numbers. I prefer not to come up with anything that would be inaccurate.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Sure. I'll just ask my next question.

My role is shadow minister for northern affairs and northern economic development, so I have a question for the Canadian Council for Aboriginal Business. A big concern I'm sure, which you've spoken about already, is the access to PPE and testing. I've asked so many questions that it's sounding like a gong in a way.

We're seeing a lack of PPE and testing ability across Canada, but it's especially impacting our northern communities. Have you seen a response to the lack of PPE? Again, in order to reopen businesses, we need to have access to that PPE. Do you currently have enough PPE available to reopen businesses in the north?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

You have just a few seconds, but go ahead, please.

[Tabatha Bull]

That is a great question. We actually haven't surveyed our members to ask that question of them. A lot of our members that can supply PPE are focusing on getting PPE to the communities. I think the announcement today will help with that, but we haven't specifically asked our businesses about reopening.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thank you very much.

Mr. van Koeverden, please go ahead for five minutes.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I am joining you here today from the sacred territory of many indigenous nations, including the Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Anishinabe and Mississaugas of the Credit First Nation.

I thank all the witnesses for being here with us today and providing the insight and perspectives you bring from your communities, industries and business organizations.

My first question is for Ms. Tabatha Bull.

My dad was manager of aboriginal tourism and trade development for the Aboriginal Business Canada organization in 1997. I called him this morning and we chatted a bit about the nature of his work almost 25 years ago. Then I read your article on thefutureeconomy.ca and reflected on how indigenous businesses have changed and modernized over the intervening 25-year period. I chatted with my dad about the types of things he used to work on and the grants that he was approving back then. I was 15 at the time and didn't take such a keen interest, and I think he was excited to reminisce a bit.

How can the government be a better partner in ensuring that indigenous businesses are connected, have access to the best technologies and can participate in the global market that Internet connectivity provides when everybody is connected?

[Tabatha Bull]

One thing you probably would have read is that broadband infrastructure is definitely still one of the most significant barriers for indigenous business. During this time of COVID, when we are working from home and indigenous businesses and purchasers are doing e-commerce—there has definitely been an increased impact on indigenous business—I think there really is a need to help indigenous businesses, specifically in rural and regional areas, to pivot. We need to ensure that they have the infrastructure to be be able to participate in the economy.

We do see a real increase in innovative IT indigenous businesses, and I know some of them are looking to supply to the federal government with respect to status card renewal. There's an indigenous business that has developed a platform to develop that.

I think there is a real opportunity, but as with any other organization or support, we need to ensure that there is some focus on ensuring that we are giving the same opportunity to indigenous businesses and sometimes a bit of a hand-up as well.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thank you very much.

[Shannin Metatawabin]

Can I jump in?

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Yes, please, Mr. Metatawabin.

[Shannin Metatawabin]

Thank you very much.

I used to work with your dad, actually, 25 years ago at the Aboriginal Business Canada office.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

That's cool.

[Shannin Metatawabin]

The National Aboriginal Capital Corporations Association delivers that program today, so it still exists.

I think what's interesting for the committee to know is that the value of government support for developmental lending has been reduced by 70% since that time, so we're operating with a lot less when our population is growing at a much faster rate than the Canadian rate. We really need to return to historical funding levels to ensure that developmental lending and recovery from this pandemic will be real.

We talked about the restaurant that needs to repay a $30,000 loan within a year. They might not be in a position to repay that loan. We really have to make sure that we are not setting up our businesses for failure or just extending the failure that's going to happen. We really need supports for them to ensure their survival and growth.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Metatawabin. I'll tell Joe you said hi. I appreciate the intervention.

My final few seconds will be for Mr. Michel.

I've talked to many indigenous leaders—certainly with the guardians program organizations that are in northern Labrador and Nunavik—who are committed to the environment. Since Quebec doesn't have a carbon tax, despite being asked a number of times about a carbon tax, can you talk to this group about your commitment to environmentalism and returning to a greener economy in an industry that's definitely going to struggle a bit with some of the regulations?

[Sébastien Michel]

Yes, absolutely.

As you said, in Quebec the carbon tax is not applicable at this time. However, like government taxes, these costs are brought back to customers, so of course it's going to impact customers and therefore other industries for sure.

On the green economy side, we're always trying to have a more efficient operation using more efficient aircraft and more efficient engines. As for us, we've been modernizing part of our cargo fleet, with newer aircraft, as a way to reduce our carbon footprint. This is among the initiatives being done by our company and other members of NATA.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thank you for being a participant in the return to a greener economy.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thanks, Adam.

We go to Mr. Vidal now for five minutes.