Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on May 29th, 2020

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Yes, Mr. Chair.

I apologize to the witnesses and to my colleagues. Usually, before I start talking or making a speech, I recognize that we are on unceded Algonquin Anishinabe territory. I completely forgot to mention that this time. I apologize to all the witnesses and, of course, to my colleagues.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thank you very much.

Now, Mr. Schmale, please go ahead.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

As previously mentioned, I'd like to move my notice of motion. I can read it if you want.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Okay.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

The motion reads:

That, with respect to the Committee’s study of the government’s response to the COVID-19 pandemic, the committee invite the Wet’suwet’en elected Chiefs, specifically, Chief Rosemarie Skin, Skin Tyee Nation, Chief Dan George, Burns Lake Band (Ts’il Kaz Koh) First Nation, Chief Maureen Luggi, Wet’suwet’en First Nation, Chief Patricia Prince, Nee Tahi Buhn Indian Band, Hereditary Chief Herb Naziel, Hereditary Chief, Gary Naziel, Hereditary Chief Theresa Tait-Day, and others as required to provide testimony on how the COVID-19 pandemic has affected their ability to enter into open and transparent negotiations regarding land rights and title with the federal government.

Perhaps I could just quickly speak to it. I think I still have the ability to do so.

To my friends on the committee, I think we have seen the elected chiefs in this discussion try to get the attention of not only the minister, but also the province and Canadians in general. The elected chiefs are asking for a voice, and they certainly have a grievance, something to say, given the fact that they feel they were not consulted on this MOU that was negotiated with the hereditary chiefs. As we all know, this MOU is the starting point, but because any decision made by this path going forward has a direct effect on them, we've already seen one chief of Burns Lake First Nation wondering if they are still a band given the fact they have been totally phased out of this process.

We had on the eve of the signing at least four elected chiefs saying that they still, to that point, had not been consulted. COVID-19 has severely disrupted the ability of the elected chiefs to speak to their members, to the people within their bands, about this deal.

This is an opportunity for us as committee members to bring the voice of the elected representatives to this committee and to the public in general to talk about how the process has failed or where we can make improvements, and maybe let's hear from these people.

Chair, that's the motion. I leave it up to you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

I have hands from Mr. van Koeverden, Mr. Vidal and Mr. Viersen.

Mr. van Koeverden.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Mr. Schmale.

My colleagues and I are on record, and while we are interested in hearing from everybody, we will be voting against this motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Mr. Vidal.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll make a couple of quick points in the context of it's being insincere to me to claim that this isn't a COVID-related matter. When I asked Ms. Bennett on May 21 in the COVID virtual committee why she proceeded to sign the MOU after a number of factors that I listed, the final part of her response was that “with the beginning of the COVID-19 outbreak it was impossible to do that in person.”

On May 22, Mr. van Koeverden, my colleague, in response to Ms. Qaqqaq's motion, said:

While our side disagrees somewhat with the framing, we strongly agree with the premise, and the importance of transparency for indigenous communities, and indeed for all Canadians.

With those two things framing my response, I think it's important that we desire to be open and transparent as we consider these things. If we're not willing to do so, what are we trying to cover up?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

We're at the time right now, so I suggest that we either vote right now or ask for an extension. If we're prepared to go to a vote right now, I would be prepared to take that vote.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Mr. Chair, the reason I agreed to switch my time with Mr. Battiste is that I thought we could have that discussion. Had I known, I probably wouldn't have switched with him, giving myself the full time to debate this.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

I was trying to be as generous as possible. You had more than five minutes left on your time.

We're at the time right now. I'm once again prepared to take the vote. Do we have unanimous consent to continue past the hour?

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Yes. I would.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

We will continue.

On my speakers list I have a point of order and an intervention; I have Mr. Viersen and Mr. Zimmer.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I wanted to echo my colleague Mr. Vidal's comments about how it seems inconsistent. We passed the NDP motion looking into the blue tents. This seems to be quite a pressing issue as well, and also an issue of transparency. I would expect the Liberals to support this, and I'm amazed they're not.

I will be supporting this motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Mr. Zimmer.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

I am concerned about Mr. van Koeverden's comments that he is going to oppose it even before the discussion has finished.

Mr. van Koeverden, have you been told how to vote on this particular issue?

The issue in front of us is the Wet'suwet'en MOU. That's the motion Mr. Schmale has put forward.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Mr. Zimmer, I appreciate the question, but I'm not sure I have the ability to vote—

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

I have the floor right now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Actually, the chair has the floor right now. I'm not going to accept crosstalk about “did you do this” or “did you do that"? I have a speakers list.

Mr. Zimmer, are you finished? If so, we'll move on to Ms. Qaqqaq.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

No. I still have a point to make.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Go ahead.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

The Wet'suwet'en elected chiefs have been contacting me and many others on this committee to have their voices heard on the MOU. Clearly this MOU was done under the cover of COVID. The minister has not rescinded the MOU. She has been asked to resign by the elected chiefs of the Wet'suwet'en. To me, even to have a discussion on the MOU and to hear from the Wet'suwet'en people themselves—the elected chiefs of the Wet'suwet'en who want to have their voices heard are not being heard now. The elected Wet'suwet'en chiefs represent the Wet'suwet'en community. That's who elected them. If we're not prepared to hear the voices of the Wet'suwet'en here today at the INAN committee, my goodness, it baffles me. Why don't you want to hear from the Wet'suwet'en people and their points about the MOU and around COVID?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thanks, Mr. Zimmer.

Now we have Ms. Qaqqaq, Madame Bérubé and Madam Gazan.

Next on our list is Ms. Qaqqaq.

[Mumilaaq Qaqqaq, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

Matna, Chair.

This situation is already complex and very divided. Adding another layer of complexity, so to speak, I don't think is beneficial for anyone. The NDP will be voting against this as well.