Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on April 22nd, 2021

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Just to clarify, Jamie, all the motions relating to the preamble are going to be at the end, if I'm not mistaken.

We started off with clause 2, which had the first amendment. What I can see from the agenda that was provided is that there are a number of CPC amendments that are coming forward. At the end, for the preamble, I don't see any CPC amendments in the preamble, but all the others....

I'm sorry. I believe that there is only one CPC amendment that's here, and then, for the rest of them, I don't see any.

Could Mr. Clerk clarify if there are more?

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

We do have some from the floor, Gary, that I was hoping to raise.

[Jacques Maziade]

If I may, Mr. Chair, we received only one CPC amendment. In the package, we have only one CPC amendment.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Jamie, the only thing we're not doing right now is the preamble, which will be at the end.

We are going clause by clause right now. We're just completing clause 4. We will proceed, I think, as per the agenda, right through, so if there are amendments that are from the floor, then I would respectfully submit that you bring them up when they come up.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

That's the problem. We're trying to. I think there are people even on your team who are having issues with this, right? I think going line by line would clarify this a lot more easily.

Am I the only one bouncing around here and going from page to page?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Well, my—

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Just to clarify, right now we're on clause 4. We're at the stage where we've dealt with the amendments were given notice on clause 4, and we're about to pass clause 4.

If there is an objection, or if you want to bring something up on clause 4, this may be the time. The chair could rule on its....

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Its admissibility.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Yes, on its admissibility, and then we go on to clause 5.

There is one amendment for clause 5, and again, if there is discussion on that, or if there are additional amendments from the floor, I believe they can come forward at that point.

We are essentially going clause by clause right now, Jamie.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Jamie—

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Mr. Chair, I think what Mr. Schmale is getting at is that I think we had an amendment that we were going to try to move from the floor for clause 2 on page 4, around line 25, and the point is that we skipped right over that.

Could we go line by line? When I've done bills line by line in the past, the chair would go, “Does line 3 carry?”, “Does line 4 carry?”, “Does line 5 carry?”, and then, when we would get to the end of the clause, we would go, “Does the entire clause carry?”

The trouble is that you're moving very quickly, and by the time we get organized, you're already on to the entire clause being carried, rather than.... Believe me, I have a mess of papers going on here as well. I'm busy trying to find the next amendment that I'm going to be working on, and you're already on the entire clause being carried. I think that's the challenge we're up against.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

I understand, Mr. Viersen, but we've had the bill for weeks, if not months. I would think that if amendments have not been brought forward in the timeline that was prescribed, I'm not sure I'd like to admit further ones.

As the chair, I'm wondering why we need to go line by line over a document that we've had for so long, considered amendments for and for which we've had the amendments in our files. I'm open to any discussion by the committee on that, but I'm reluctant to slow everything.

Believe me, the first thing I think I may have referred to is that we want to be careful that we do this properly so that our work is correct at the finish. If we need to go line by line, then I've got to add more papers to a very terrible-looking desk. I don't mind doing that if it's in the best interests of the work we're doing.

Ms. Gazan, you have your hand up.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I just want to share, Mr. Chair, that we were provided with adequate time to put in our amendments. I have only received one from the Conservative Party in terms of the clauses of the bill. I think it's very clear that we will go line by line in the preamble after we complete this part.

It's pretty clear to me. It says “clause 4”, and then you just have to look at the number “4”. This is not rocket science, and I think we just need to move on with this.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thank you.

Go ahead, Mr. Schmale.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Chair, we're are trying to move on from this. I don't consider myself a veteran, but this is the first time I've been in this kind of situation, reviewing and going clause by clause like this. This is new to me, and this is my second term.

I think it would be a lot quicker if we did, because we're just bouncing around here. It's true that we've had the bill for a while, but we also have the right and the ability to raise amendments from the floor, and that's what we plan on doing.

If you want to move this quickly, let's go line by line and get this done. We're bouncing around from place to place and trying to figure out where we are. You can't just say it's the Conservatives either, because there are other members on this committee who have raised the same concern.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Go ahead, Mr. Anandasangaree.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, in order to move on, I'm going to suggest that right now we've dealt with the first three clauses and we're at the point of passing clause 4, so if there's no objection to carrying clause 4, let's carry clause 4.

Moving forward, let's go to the amendments for which notice has been given. Once they're dealt with, we open the floor to Mr. Schmale to see if he has amendments relating to clause 5. In the absence of any, we pass it. If there are amendments, I would invite you to rule on that.

I believe that's probably the most efficient way of dealing with this, rather than doing it line by line. This is called a clause-by-clause meeting, from what I understand, which means that we do typically deal with the entire clause. I think this is probably a midpoint, where we're a bit more efficient, but at the same time it allows Mr. Schmale to bring up issues that are pertinent within the context of each of the clauses we are addressing.

Right now, just to clarify, we're on clause 4. We've addressed three amendments for which notice was given. If there are no additional amendments from the Conservative side, then we should go on to carry clause 4 and then go on to clause 5.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Ms. Gill is next.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Mr. Chair, since the division process for this clause is already under way, I agree that we should finish it.

I nevertheless have two requests for my colleagues.

First, I would encourage all members to be prepared and to have in hand all documents required for the study, because we would not want to extend the process unduly. Doing so should ensure that everything goes smoothly. I can only hope that this will be done for next time, if we are unable to finish the work today.

Second, if Mr. Schmale and the Conservative Party had any amendments to put forward, we could, out of concern for democracy, go over the study clause-by-clause from the beginning, as suggested by Mr. Anandasangaree. It should not take long at all.

If other amendments had to be added, however, we could always receive them prior to the next meeting.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thank you.

Mr. Schmale, I'm going to ask that we move on clause 4 right now. I'm going to ask that we take a recorded division on clause 4 to carry.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Mr. Chair, I do believe we have another amendment for clause 4.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Mr. Viersen, can I ask if there are substantive issues that need to be raised, in view of the fact that we've had this material before us for so long and asked for timely submissions of the amendments? What is the necessity of doing what you're asking?

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Chair, does Arnold have the floor, or...?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

I asked Mr. Viersen the question.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Mr. Chair, I'd like to cede my time to Mr. Schmale.