Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Nov. 6th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you, Ms. Idlout.

NDP-12 is moved. We have a speaking list.

Mrs. Atwin, you're first.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We find that it's simply reiterating something we've already established, so it's kind of a redundancy.

I won't support it only because it's already in the bill.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you, Mrs. Atwin.

Are there any other colleagues who would like to weigh in, at this point?

Mr. Melillo.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I simply agree with everything Mrs. Atwin said. It's very similar to other amendments that have passed.

As we move through clause 4.... Last time, I think Mr. Schmale asked about a definition of “source water”. If I'm not mistaken, there is no definition of “source water” in Bill C-61.

For the witnesses, I'm curious about whether there's a definition of “source water” used in any other pieces of government legislation, or in government law now. If you don't have that off the top of your heads, I would appreciate it if you could get back to us, because I think it is an important thing to clarify.

[Nelson Barbosa, Director General, Community Infrastructure Branch, Department of Indigenous Services]

Yes, absolutely. We'll return with that.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you, Mr. Melillo.

If there are no further interventions, let's go to a vote.

Shall NDP-12 carry?

(Amendment negatived [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Our next amendment is NDP-13.

I'll open the floor for a mover of NDP-13.

Ms. Idlout, you have the floor.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

[Member spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]

Thank you.

I was not too sure how to say this. Thank you, Sébastien, for helping me out.

The File Hills Qu'Appelle Tribal Council has made this request. It's trying to make it clearer that the Government of Canada needs to collaborate.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you, Ms. Idlout. NDP-13 is moved.

Are there any colleagues who would like to make an intervention related to NDP-13?

Monsieur Lemire.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

We will be voting against amendment NDP‑13 because we believe it would have an impact on provincial and territorial legislation and that what is mentioned is not under federal jurisdiction.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Mr. Lemire.

Are there any other colleagues who would like to weigh in?

In that case, we can move to a vote.

Shall NDP-13 carry?

(Amendment agreed to on division [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Next, we will move to NDP-14.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

[Member spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]

Thank you.

I move NDP-14.

It's also being requested by File Hills Qu'Appelle Tribal Council. I thank them for supporting it.

I'm trying to make this.... A previous member of Parliament, Romeo Saganash, helped me prepare this and make it more understandable. I thank him for that. He helped me with this. I wanted to state that.

It pertains to our fresh water.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Ms. Idlout.

I have a speaking list here.

First, I have Mrs. Atwin.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We accepted the previous amendment because it's about ensuring collaboration occurs. It's putting the onus on the federal government to be that convener.

I think this NDP-14 amendment, though, oversteps that jurisdictional boundary and opens the bill up to potential constitutional challenges. We can't take that risk. Therefore, we won't be accepting this one.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Mrs. Atwin.

Mr. Lemire now has the floor.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is for the officials.

If discussions fail or an impasse is reached, what mechanisms in Bill C‑61 could resolve this impasse?

Do we have to go through the courts, do we have to go through a mediation process, or do we just do nothing?

[Nelson Barbosa]

Thanks for the question.

The question is not in relation to this amendment. I think it's broader. We'll get to some of the sections about protection zones. Essentially, is there willing co-operation among provinces, territories and first nation governments to align those laws? As currently drafted, there is no compelling mechanism to bring parties to the table, or to create binding mechanisms to superimpose laws, should there not be willing partners.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Mr. Lemire.

Next, I have Mr. Melillo on the list.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm also inclined to vote against this. Based on much of what was discussed already, I think this potentially has a lot of implications for provincial jurisdiction, and perhaps even beyond. I think the word “transboundary” is one that raises some flags for me. I'm thinking of my geography. Folks know I come from Kenora. I'm right on top of Lake of the Woods, which is an international body of water. It's an area shared among Ontario, Manitoba and Minnesota. I think there could be a number of concerns, even from an international standpoint, if this were to move forward.

I don't know whether officials have any comments on that, specifically, but I wanted to raise that concern.

[Rebecca Blake]

Yes, I appreciate the concern.

In the scope of federal Parliament, a bill can apply only in Canada—in case that helps, in terms of mitigating that. The co-operation that already exists around the lake near where you live would still remain in place. There would be no impact on that.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Absolutely. I didn't want to insinuate that. Maybe I wasn't clear. It would not impose itself on American waters or anything like that, but I think the fact that it is a shared body of water used as a source of water, recreation and a number of.... I think it could cause some concern.

I appreciate that response. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thanks very much, Mr. Melillo.

Next, I have Mr. Zimmer. After that, it's Ms. Idlout.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Thank you.

I agree with my colleague Mr. Melillo.

I'm from British Columbia. We have the Columbia River system. I have the Peace River in my riding, which affects Northwest Territories and beyond. Again, the Columbia River affects British Columbia and the U.S. Anything we do is going to have an effect on other jurisdictions. To me, the possible impact of this—despite your saying that it's limited by its scope—could still have a dramatic effect on water in those jurisdictions, plain and simple.

I'm concerned about this provision.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Mr. Zimmer.

I have Ms. Idlout on the speaking list.