Evidence of meeting #134 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was amendment.
A video is available from Parliament.
Senior Counsel, Legal Services, Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs and Department of Indigenous Services, Department of Justice
I'll have to check for you. I'll get you the precise name of the bill. It's either the Ontario water safety act or the Ontario water act, but we will look that up for you.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
Thank you very much, Ms. Idlout.
I don't see any further hands up at this point, so let's go to a vote.
Shall G-9 carry?
(Amendment agreed to: yeas 9; nays 2)
(Clause 37 as amended agreed to on division)
(Clause 38 agreed to on division)
Colleagues, this takes us to clause 39. However, it is 1:43 p.m. right now, and I know that there are members who have member statements, so we are going to suspend now. I know there isn't unanimous consent to vote virtually, so we will return after the votes.
I understand that we have four votes today. Maybe they are applied; I'm not sure at this point. As soon as those votes are finished, we will resume the committee meeting within 10 minutes of that.
Bloc
Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
Why not vote electronically? Otherwise, we're going to waste an hour.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
Mr. Lemire, unfortunately we don't have unanimous consent to vote virtually, so we will return as soon as the votes have finished after question period. Perhaps they're applied, but it means that we'll restart probably sometime between 3:45 p.m. and 4:15 p.m.
With that, we are suspended, but we will return at that point.
November 26th, 2024 / 3:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
Colleagues, we're back.
We're going to resume consideration of Bill C-61.
We left off just before question period. Just as a reminder to members, we were about to start clause 39.
(On clause 39)
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
The next amendment we will be discussing is the new amendment BQ‑31.
For information purposes for members, this is reference number 13387335.
I will now go to Mr. Lemire.
Bloc
Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
With all due respect, Mr. Chair, the new amendment BQ‑31 is reference number 13387553, not 13387335, unless I have the wrong version.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
Wait a minute, I'll check.
Mr. Lemire is correct. It is actually reference number 13387553.
Mr. Lemire, you have the floor.
Bloc
Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Don't worry. In any event, I will read out the amendment.
Clause 39 of the bill begins to deal with the First Nations Water Commission. As you know, we've asked a number of questions and intervened on a number of occasions regarding this commission, particularly with regard to the consultation leading up to its establishment. Personally, I have concerns about how the opinion of first nations will be incorporated into the makeup of this commission. So most of the amendments we'll be proposing in relation to the First Nations Water Commission will go in that direction.
We're aiming for simple wording, that is to say discussions, consultations and reflections on the establishment of a commission and its mandate. Amendment BQ‑31 proposes that Bill C‑61, in clause 39, be amended by replacing lines 9 and 10 on page 18 with the following:
39 (1) The Minister must establish working groups, whose members are not paid, and whose purpose is to consult and cooperate with First Nation governing bodies and to grant them decision-making representation that is equal and equitable to that of the other participants, in respect of the develop-
It goes on to talk about the development of terms of reference for the establishment of this first nations-led organization.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
Thank you very much, Mr. Lemire.
For information purposes for members, if the new BQ-31 is adopted, NDP-76 cannot be moved due to a line conflict.
With that, I'll open it up to debate.
Mrs. Atwin, I'll start with you.
Liberal
Jenica Atwin Liberal Fredericton, NB
I just have a concern that this is quite prescriptive. It sets the terms of engagement for how the Government of Canada must engage with first nations in developing the first nations water commission, which is really meant to be the master of its own destiny and at arm's length from government. That's really critical for the process.
For me, it's too prescriptive in detailing what it's supposed to be. For that reason, I would be voting against it.
Bloc
Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
Out of curiosity, I'd like to know what my colleague thinks is too much. Is it establishing working groups? Is it the fact that their members are not paid? Is it the fact that their goal is to consult and cooperate with first nations governing bodies? Is it the fact that we want to allow equal and equitable decision-making representation for the other participants? Which of those is too much?
Liberal
Jenica Atwin Liberal Fredericton, NB
These are things we certainly hope will be part of the process, but again, it's up to the first nation communities that establish the water commission to decide that. It very well could look like working groups.
These pieces about ensuring equitable and equal representation are great as well, but it's not supposed to have the minister's direct involvement, in my understanding. Perhaps I can go to the officials to see what their interpretation would be. It's the minister piece.
Acting Director, Legislation, Engagement and Regulations, Department of Indigenous Services
I appreciate the question.
Yes, absolutely. The way the bill is constructed right now is really to have the minister's only involvement in relation to the terms of reference. After that, first nations organizations would take over in terms of the articles of incorporation to create the organization completely separate from government to implement first nation priorities.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
Thank you very much, Mr. Lemire.
Is there any other debate?
Ms. Idlout.
NDP
Lori Idlout NDP Nunavut, NU
Thank you.
I'm wondering about NDP-76. I see that reference number 13387553 and NDP-76 are quite different from each other. Number 13387553 proposes to require the minister to establish a working group, whereas NDP-76 seems to provide more leeway for the first nations water commission. I wonder where the line conflict is, so that I could consider what to do with both amendments.
Thank you.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
Thank you, Ms. Idlout.
I'm just looking at the bill. BQ-31 would amend lines 9 and 10 on page 18, and NDP-76 would amend lines 10 and 11. While not similar in substance, they deal with the same line, which is line 10. That is the line conflict that is there.
Colleagues, we're going to suspend very briefly while a little bit of back-and-forth happens.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
Colleagues, we're back.
We ended off with Ms. Idlout having the floor.
Ms. Idlout, I'll turn the floor back to you.
NDP
Lori Idlout NDP Nunavut, NU
Thank you for explaining where the line conflict is. I think I'm ready to vote.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
That's great.
In that case, unless there are any other interventions to be made here, let's go to a vote.
Shall the new BQ-31 carry?
(Amendment negatived: nays 10; yeas 1)
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
That brings us to NDP-76.
I will turn the floor over to Ms. Idlout.
NDP
Lori Idlout NDP Nunavut, NU
Qujannamiik.
NDP-76 is an amendment submitted to us by File Hills Qu'Appelle, and I thank them for their work. It's too lengthy, so I'm not going to read the whole thing.
Thank you.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
Thank you very much, Ms. Idlout.
NDP-76 has been moved.
I'll just mention that if NDP-76 is adopted, CPC-12 and CPC-13 cannot be moved due to a line conflict and the fact that they are consequential.
With that, I'll open it up to debate.
Mrs. Atwin.
Liberal
Jenica Atwin Liberal Fredericton, NB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Once again, where it's prescribing setting the terms of engagement for the first nations water commission, I would not be supportive of it. Most of the provisions that are mentioned are already existing, except for those proposed timelines. The existing language acknowledges the importance of setting a timeline for the development of the FNWC, but it has that built-in flexibility, which is what we heard from partners definitively.
I will be voting against.