Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Oct. 17th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

I call the meeting to order. Good morning, everyone.

Welcome to meeting number 33 of the Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs.

We are gathered here today on the unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe nation.

We have a few items of housekeeping before we get to our invited witnesses on Bill C-29.

First, we must approve the proposed budget for consideration of Bill C‑29, which you all received.

Do the committee members agree to approve the budget?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Second, is there agreement for the clerk to submit the draft budget for the committee's proposed travel for the period from January to March 2023 to the clerk of the liaison committee by October 21? You should have received this as well.

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Finally, today we have Émilie Thivierge, who is a legislative clerk, and Alexandra Schorah, who is a legislative counsel. They are here to explain how they can assist us if we wish to propose amendments to Bill C‑29.

Ms. Thivierge and Ms. Schorah, you have the floor.

[Alexandra Schorah, Senior Legislative Counsel, Legislative Services, House of Commons]

Thanks very much for allowing us to speak to you today.

All I want to say is that I exist. Maybe it's an existential question for a Monday morning, but I'm the legislative counsel on this bill, and I'd be happy to assist you.

The main message today is that, if you have instructions for amendments, please let me know as soon as possible so that I can get them drafted and determine whether there are any legal or legislative drafting issues with them. Please rest assured that solicitor-client privilege applies, so I won't disclose any of your amendments unless you authorize me to do so, not even to someone in your own caucus.

The amendment drafting process does take time. If you've ever been involved in a private member's bill, you'll know that we have to allow time for revision, translation, etc., so please bear with us if we don't get back to you right away.

That's pretty much all I wanted to say.

Even if you don't have clear instructions yet, don't hesitate to call me to discuss how best to frame something. We have documents and templates that may assist you in organizing your thoughts.

Thanks very much for your attention.

[Émilie Thivierge, Legislative Clerk]

In just a few words also, my role as the legislative clerk assigned to Bill C-29 will be to assist the committee during the clause-by-clause consideration of the bill. If members of the committee have any questions about the procedural admissibility of any amendments they would like to submit once they have been drafted by Alexandra or if you have any questions concerning the clause-by-clause study of the bill, please don't hesitate to contact me at your earliest convenience.

In order to assist the committee in conducting an orderly clause-by-clause study, I will organize all the amendments that members submit to the clerk into a package of amendments. I will also prepare an agenda that includes each clause of the bill and any submitted amendments. This will be circulated to all members of the committee shortly after the deadline to submit amendments. I will also be present in the room for the clause-by-clause consideration of the bill.

My contact information can be found in the memo the clerk has already sent to all committee members.

I will be happy to answer any questions committee members may have regarding the procedural admissibility of amendments they may wish to make to Bill C‑29 and to provide advice in a confidential manner, as my colleague Ms. Schrorah said.

Furthermore, I encourage all members to contact my colleague to have their amendments written in both official languages as soon as possible.

Finally, if members have any questions, I encourage them to contact me without hesitation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Madame Thivierge and Madame Schorah. I don't see any hands raised, so thank you for those brief words of introduction about the process of doing amendments and then subsequently the clause-by-clause review.

I'd now like to welcome our witnesses from the national indigenous organizations.

From the Assembly of First Nations, we have National Chief RoseAnne Archibald, as well as Julie McGregor, director of justice. They are joining virtually today.

From the Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami, we have Natan Obed, president. He is here in person. From the Métis National Council, we have Cassidy Caron, president. She is here in person as well.

Just to ensure an orderly meeting, I'd like to outline a few rules to follow.

Members and witnesses may speak in the official language of their choice. Interpretation services in English, French and Inuktitut are available for today's meeting. Please be patient with the interpretation. There may be a delay in the Inuktitut translation since it has to be translated into English before it can be translated into French, and vice versa.

For those in the video conference, the interpretation button is found at the bottom of your screen. It's that little round globe. You can listen in one of the languages shown. If interpretation is lost, please inform me immediately, and we will stop the proceedings until we rectify it.

There's also a “raise hand” feature at the bottom of the screen. It can be used at any time if you wish to speak or alert the chair.

Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. If you are on the video conference, please click on the microphone icon to unmute yourself. When speaking, please speak slowly and clearly. When you are not speaking, your mike should be on mute. This will help our interpreters a great deal.

I'll remind you that all comments should be addressed through the chair.

I would now like to invite each organization to make a five-minute opening statement. That will be followed by questions from members.

I would now like to invite National Chief RoseAnne Archibald to begin with her opening comments for five minutes.

[National Chief RoseAnne Archibald, Assembly of First Nations]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My comments might go over, so I think I might just jump quickly to the recommendations that the AFN has with respect to this bill.

[Witness spoke in Cree and provided the following text:]

Wahcheeyay misiway. RoseAnne Archibald nitishinikahsoon. Taykwa Tagmou ishinakataow kawocheean.

[Witness provided the following translation:]

Greetings, everyone. My name is RoseAnne Archibald and the place I come from is called Taykwa Tagmou.

[English]

I am happy to be here today to speak to the committee. I'm just trying to find my notes, if you could give me just a moment.

As I said, I'm here to share the AFN perspective on Bill C-29. I'll be providing a summary of AFN's perspective on the legacy of those former residential institutions. I don't call them schools anymore. They were institutions of assimilation and genocide where thousands of our children died.

I'll speak to the implementation of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada's calls to actions 53 to 56. I'll share with you some of AFN's concerns with Bill C-29.

I'm just going to jump ahead to that, Mr. Chair, because I feel like I might run out of time in terms of the amendments that we have to the bill, and the suggestions.

In terms of the nominations, clause 8 of the proposed act sets out that the first board of directors will be chosen by the minister “in collaboration with the transition committee”.

Clause 9 states that the board will have “a minimum of nine” directors and that the AFN, the ITK and the Métis National Council will each nominate one board director. Presumably, the minister would then have the discretion to appoint the remaining six to nine members of the first board of directors. Essentially, the minister has the authority to nominate and appoint two-thirds of the NCR's first board of directors.

Clause 11 requires that at least two-thirds of the directors must be indigenous, but no distinction is made between first nations, Inuit and Métis people.

Given the history of these institutions on our people, it's really of primary importance that the NCR board of directors be truly independent of government and also be reflective of the overwhelming impact that these institutions had on first nations people, so it's very concerning that under Bill C-29, the minister is given the broad discretion to appoint the majority of—

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Forgive me, Mr. Chair, but I have a point of order.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Ms. Vanessa Davies]

Mr. Chair, I'm sorry to interrupt. It's the clerk. I apologize.

Madame Gill has a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

We'll pause briefly, Chief Archibald, for the point of order from Madame Gill.

Go ahead, Madame Gill.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

On two occasions, the interpreter notified us that the sound quality was too poor for her to do her job well. The first time, she tried to continue interpreting, but the problem occurred a second time and she had to stop. If you could find a solution so that she could hear the witness well, I would be very grateful.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Yes, I understand.

We'll pause briefly to see if we can improve the quality. I can hear it extremely clearly where I am, but it's the interpreters who have the tough job of translating it, so they have to hear it clearly too.

Can we pause to see if we can do something? It's over to you, Madam Clerk.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Chief, I did stop the clock when this occurred, so you still have two and a half minutes. Please proceed.

[National Chief RoseAnne Archibald]

We have proposed amendments under section 10.

The AFN is proposing that section 10 be amended to provide for the following nominations of the first board of directors: Assembly of First Nations, three nominees; ITK, two nominees; MNC, two nominees; and the remaining two to five nominees to be appointed and nominated by the minister in collaboration with the transition committee.

This proposal ensures that the majority of nominations to the first board of directors remains with the AFN, ITK, and MNC, and not the federal government.

The second part that we speak to is with regard to representativeness. Clause 12 of the bill—

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

I'm very sorry, Mr. Chair, but I have to raise another point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

I am listening, Mrs. Gill.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

I wish I didn't have to interrupt Chief Archibald. The interpreter tried to do her job again, but this time she had to stop. I prefer to speak for the interpreters at this time. Interpreting is just as difficult as before.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you very much.

I'm afraid we're going to have to pause again to briefly see if there's anything that we can do.

From my understanding, the chief is wearing the headset that we provided her.

[The Clerk]

Is there another headset that the chief might have? Sometimes unplugging the headset from the computer and plugging it back in again works.

Mr. Battiste has a point of order.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Mr. Chair, we have the president from ITK and the president from MNC here in person. Perhaps we can have our technicians call National Chief Archibald while the other two leaders present, hoping that we can carry on with the meeting, and any kind of technical issue specific to the chief, whether it's restarting her computer or getting new headphones, could be done in the time that we listen to ITK and MNC.

[National Chief RoseAnne Archibald]

I'm sorry; I have limited time today. I have to leave immediately after I finish my presentation. I'm in a community meeting with the chief and council very shortly, so I'm hoping that we can try my trusty other headphones and see how they work.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Chief, does the AFN's director of justice, Ms. McGregor, have the same script as you do? Could she complete it? Is she willing?

[National Chief RoseAnne Archibald]

Probably. Can you hear me now? Can you hear me with these headphones?