Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Oct. 17th, 2022

[Harold Calla]

Yes, it does need to be, but it also involves the provinces.

With respect, I think there should be a first ministers conference called to deal with some of the issues that were unresolved when the Constitution was created. If we're going to have reconciliation in this country, it's going to involve multiple levels of government, but the provincial government has a key role to play. You can't command them to come, but I think it needs to be recognized that we need to have a first ministers conference around indigenous issues.

[Marcus Powlowski, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

I take it that you would agree that part of the purpose of this council ought to be to monitor economic development as one of its raisons d’être.

[Harold Calla]

I do. It's one of the reasons I referenced the “RoadMap” project that we're working on. The 300 first nations across the country that have begun to work with us are looking for these kinds of opportunities.

The challenge we all face is that we can't move in lockstep. We're all evolving at different levels and at different speeds. We need to be in a position where those that can move forward should and those who aren't willing or able to move forward at this time should be supported to get to the position where they can move forward to solve some of these issues.

If money itself was a solution, with all of the contributions that have been made through the various departments over the last 200 years, I'd like to think something more positive than what we see today would have happened.

[Marcus Powlowski, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Do I still have some time?

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

You have one minute.

[Marcus Powlowski, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

I have a question for the Native Women's Association of Canada.

You talked about an amendment to clause 10 and allowing NWAC to also nominate one individual. I wonder if you might also consider clause 12. There's nothing really in this bill to guarantee some sort of parity or requiring a certain number of indigenous women as part of this council.

Do you have any other comments in terms of ensuring women's representation on the council?

[Allison MacIntosh]

I can certainly say that section 12 is simply not good enough. As President McBride said, NWAC's inclusion must be legislated in the same way as the other three NIOs.

It's not good enough to say that NWAC isn't precluded or that NWAC might be able to get a position on the council's board sometime in the next five years. NWAC fears that without explicit, equitable and inclusive legislation guaranteeing NWAC a spot at the table, the voices of the people we represent, who are already so marginalized in so many intersectional ways, will fall through the cracks and be left behind once again.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Mr. Powlowski.

Mrs. Gill, you have six minutes.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank Mr. Calla, Ms. McBride, Ms. MacIntosh and Mr. Coulombe for their respective testimonies.

I'd like to ask the representatives of the Native Women's Association of Canada about representation. I often come back to this issue in committee. It is indeed an aspect of the bill that is problematic for many people. It has to do with consultation, on the one hand, but also with representation on the board of directors itself.

Although I'm here to listen to your point of view, I must say that I am concerned by the same elements of the bill as you are. I often feel that women are treated as if they are a minority. However, according to statistics, women make up more than half of the current population. I notice that there is no desire for parity in the bill, and that concerns me. I would like to know what you think about that.

As you've said several times, we should very quickly ensure that your organization is represented on the board of directors. Furthermore, I don't know if there is a will to achieve gender parity on this board. That might be interesting for you. I know that this isn't your association's responsibility, but that's a question I was wondering about.

[Allison MacIntosh]

Again, NWAC'S position is that we need to have a legislated seat on the board. As President McBride has said, our work is unique. We have our own analytical tools, such as a culturally relevant gender-based analysis that is applied to everything we do.

In addition to that, we're a national organization that has been providing advocacy and representation for nearly 50 years. NWAC is expert at this point, and it's insulting that we have not been included. It's also insulting that there are only three national indigenous organizations and that the remainder of the committee's members will be picked by government.

As you said, the best way we can include the voices of the individuals we represent is by permitting NWAC a seat at the table, under subclause 10(1) through the addition of a paragraph 10(1)(d).

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Thank you, Ms. MacIntosh.

Actually, I was adding something to your proposal, even though it goes beyond that. On the one hand, there is indeed the issue of your organization's representation. On the other, should we try to achieve gender parity on the board of directors, which could include up to 13 elected members?

That was the second part of my question. You can answer yes or no, or qualify your answer if you wish.

[Allison MacIntosh]

I'm sorry, but could you present that question again?

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

I was asking you if we should also strive for gender parity in the membership of the board of directors. You would like the Native Women's Association of Canada to be represented on the board of directors, but would you also like 50% of the board of directors to be women, ideally, or at the very least respect the parity zone by having 40% women and 60% men?

[Grand Chief Carol McBride]

I think what has happened throughout is that the Native Women's Association of Canada has done so much work with the women that we have the heartbeat of the women in general, and I think it would be really horrible if we were not able to bring the knowledge of what we gathered throughout those years to that table and be part of the national organization.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Excuse me, Ms. McBride, but I don't think my question was understood.

It's not up to me to take a position on that, but I would say that I agree that your organization should be on the board of directors. Also, do you think women should make up half of the board?

I don't know if my question was understood, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Let me offer—

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Let me offer what I believe Madame Gill is asking for.

Over and above representation from the Native Women's Association of Canada, Madame Gill is asking whether you are in favour of parity between genders on the whole board—in other words, if it's a board of 12, that there be six women and six men. That's the nature of the question.

[Allison MacIntosh]

I think that specifically is something on which we would need to canvass our board of directors. I think what's important to acknowledge is that it goes beyond just having a fifty-fifty split of indigenous men and women or of men and women on the board, and we also need representation for two-spirit, gender-diverse and transgender individuals on the board. It goes a little bit beyond that, and with respect to a specific split down the middle, it's something on which we'd have to consult more with our board.

I hope that answers your question, honourable member.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Yes, thank you.

How much time do I have left now, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

You have 30 seconds left.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

My next question is for Mr. Coulombe, as well as Mr. Calla, of course.

We talked about representation. I'd like to ask you some more questions about that, because I think it's important to you, too.

Mr. Coulombe, do you have anything to add about organizations that should also be included on the board of directors? As we know, the consultations did not allow us to hear from everyone. As the representatives of the Native Women's Association of Canada said, perhaps all indigenous communities or peoples are not represented.

What can we do to ensure that the National Council for Reconciliation is legitimate and credible and that it represents all indigenous peoples in Canada?

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Grand Chief Coulombe, please give us a quick answer.

[Grand Chief Gérard Coulombe]

I think the Native Women's Association of Canada and the Congress of Aboriginal Peoples of Canada are in the same situation. We are specialized organizations, and we represent people across Canada. However, we are being shut out by not being allowed to be part of an organization like that, which is crucial for us. We are a voice across Canada for indigenous people living off reserve. We represent virtually every indigenous nation, and we do tremendous work with them. We believe that both organizations should be at this table.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Very quickly, Mr. Calla, what are your thoughts?