Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Oct. 31st, 2022

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Would you say they were very supportive and hands off, allowing the committee to do the important work that was necessary?

[Mitch Case]

That's my view of things, yes. Certainly others can contradict me if they want to.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

I guess the other part, if that's what the transitional committee's thoughts are.... I'm looking at the $126.5 million as well as the $1.5 million for the starting year. Do you feel that amount gives the committee a long range to conduct the work of reconciliation? Reconciliation is not going to be done in a year; it may take a generation. Can you tell us a bit about how you foresee using that money? Is that an adequate amount of money for reconciliation over a number of years?

[Michael DeGagné]

I think it's clear among this group that it will not be an adequate amount of money over the course of time, but it is initially sufficient to get the organization going and to get it doing its work. It also puts some pressure on the organization in, let's say, five years to demonstrate some results and demonstrate that the reconciliation movement is being pushed forward by this organization.

I think it accomplishes enough to get us initially started. It is not by any stretch of the imagination the kind of first commitment that will last forever, and certainly not with all the first nations, Métis and non-indigenous interests in Canada. It's enough to get us going and will put pressure on us to demonstrate results.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Within the makeup of the committee, the recommendation is to have one seat from the MNC, one seat from AFN and one seat from the ITK.

Can you give us an explanation as to how you came up with those three groups and those numbers for the makeup of the committee?

[Edith Cloutier]

Thank you for your question.

It is indeed important to seek out the greatest plurality of voices that make up indigenous peoples and have a council where it will be possible to work and move forward. A large council can be burdensome in terms of administration and governance.

Representation from the Assembly of First Nations, Inuit representation and Métis representation allow us to have, initially, this representativeness of indigenous peoples. Then it's a matter of, through appointments or calls for nominations, going after that diversity that you mentioned at the beginning of your comment, which would include women, members of the LGBTQ+ community, people from urban and rural areas, youth and seniors. I think we have an opportunity to open the door to different people who want to be involved with the council.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

The last question I have is on the calls to action. A lot of them are in the federal jurisdiction and some of them, like health and education, are in the provincial jurisdiction. Some of them are calling on law schools or universities. How do we envision this council being able to effect change with all the stakeholders?

As you said, Michael DeGagné, there are so many stakeholders involved in reconciliation; it's not just the federal government. How do we feel a national committee could help sway or push provinces or universities to do more on the calls to action?

[Michael DeGagné]

I'll speak to the university perspective, as an example. Having worked in that sector and spoken to some universities, I generally get the same questions. How can we better reach the indigenous community in our schools? How can we begin the process of reconciliation not just inside the schools but with our community? What they're largely unaware of, although there are efforts in this regard, is what everyone else is doing.

I think that's going to be a big part of what this reconciliation organization will do. It will be to say that they don't have to recreate everything from scratch every time. There are corporate initiatives that are exemplary and other corporations can emulate them. There are university initiatives that are exemplary and other universities can emulate them.

I think there will be a lot of information sharing, getting into the data and making sure that where commitments are made around reconciliation, people honour them.

[Mitch Case]

Can I add to that very briefly, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Please go ahead.

[Mitch Case]

It also comes down to the first point in the mandate, which is to establish that broad definition of reconciliation.

With respect to your question, you only mentioned the TRC calls to action, but RCAP had hundreds of recommendations as well. The courts have outlined reconciliation in a legal framework. Reconciliation means a lot of different things.

To Mike's point, I think the council can have the role of convening these conversations to help organizations, entities and schools—whatever it might be—that want to do something and don't know where to start. It can be that convenor to pull TRC, RCAP, MMIWG and all of those things into one place to help convene these conversations.

[Rosemary Cooper]

Perhaps I can supplement that very briefly, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Yes, please go ahead.

[Rosemary Cooper]

This is also tied to education, a broader Canadian education. How do we reconcile? What are the promising practices? Those are essential to the board in the work it will be working on.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Ms. Cooper and Mr. Battiste.

Mrs. Gill, you now have the floor for six minutes.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I also thank all the witnesses for their presentations today.

I have several questions for them. However, as we know, our time is limited. So I'm going to follow up on what Mr. Vidal was talking about earlier, the issue of the fifth anniversary. I have not heard a full answer on that.

I am also wondering why it is taking so long to put together a board of directors that is ideally representative of all indigenous peoples or the indigenous reality.

I don't know who would like to answer the question. So I will leave it to the people on the transitional committee to identify that person.

[Edith Cloutier]

Thank you for your question, Mrs. Gill.

As was mentioned, the transitional committee will be part of the first permanent board of directors. You have, with the four of us, an example of that representative diversity of indigenous peoples.

Of course, we are not going to be the only ones on the board, as we will be joined by three representatives from national institutions. So there will be a call for nominations, and it is after those nominations have been considered that the permanent board of directors will be created. I agree that this will have to be done in conjunction with the minister and that he should not be left to make these decisions alone.

So, as you will understand, there is a lot of work ahead of us over the next year. We'll have to incorporate the nonprofit organization, draft the bylaws, and so on. So we have a lot of work to do, but we feel that, in five years, and maybe even three years or two years, this diverse board will be complete.

That said, the proposed legislation was designed to give the board the powers and the ability to conduct its own engagements, to decide on its own actions, and to work toward a board of directors that is representative of the beautiful and diverse peoples in Canada. So we need that time to do this.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Okay.

I'm going to ask you my next question completely candidly.

Five years to get to the point where there is representativeness is a very long time, in my opinion. What's more, I think the interim board had already consulted with a number of stakeholders, some organizations, as well as you and the commission itself.

So I would imagine that already having knowledge of the field and the reality would have made the task of establishing a more representative board relatively easy. That said, I understand all the challenges you face.

I am not sure who said earlier that the Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami, the Assembly of First Nations and the Métis National Council represented all indigenous people in Canada. I'm also not sure all the witnesses would agree with that statement.

So you really think it will take five years and that's why all this time is being requested. Couldn't it be done more quickly?

[Edith Cloutier]

Yes, there may be a way to do it more quickly.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Would it be difficult?

[Edith Cloutier]

A five-year time frame has been established. However, it is certain that we will invest the energy required to put in place a board of directors that is representative of the reality of indigenous peoples in Canada.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Yes, I understand.

You gave the example of the bylaws. I would imagine that, to draft the bylaws, you would prefer to have more people involved, without making it too complex either. As you said earlier, the more people around the table, the harder it becomes to work.

Thank you. That answers my first question.

I obviously won't be able to ask all the questions I had prepared, but I have another one, again candid, about clause 12 of the bill, which talks about representativeness. In subclause 12(a), it talks about “First Nations, Inuit and Métis”, which makes sense. Subclause 12(b), on the other hand, refers to “other peoples in Canada”. I was wondering what exactly this meant, as this element is not defined after the preamble.

Could any of you answer my question?

[Edith Cloutier]

We're talking about non-indigenous Canadian representation.

Reconciliation is not just built among indigenous people; it requires working with all Canadians.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

I notice that “peoples” is plural. Are you referring to the Quebec nation versus the rest of Canada, for example?

It's okay if you don't have the answer. You can send it to us later. I'm just wondering what it means in terms of representativeness.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Mrs. Gill.

Ms. Idlout, you now have the floor for six minutes.