Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Oct. 31st, 2022

[Michael DeGagné]

It's similar to Madam Idlout's comments. I think there's an interest in rights and making sure that rights are considered. There's an interest in making sure that UNDRIP is considered and that treaties and land are considered. All of those things are parallel processes in reconciliation.

I think this organization, this structure, wants to push forward on reconciliation so that somebody can't say that until all rights are recognized in this country, we can't move forward, or that until all of the land questions are settled, we can't move forward. Having a structure gives an imperative to move forward on reconciliation where it's occurring, but not to ignore those other very critical questions.

[Rosemary Cooper]

I'd like to add that in reconciliation efforts, self-determination and a distinctions-based indigenous lens are critical in Canada. The gender-based analysis the federal government has committed to is equally important while we make efforts to address the diverse people who are challenged, whether they're gender-diverse people, youth or the whole sector we're trying to engage with. In the effort to recognize Inuit, first nations and Métis in Canada and their rights, I think we're at a milestone with some leverage going on for self-determination.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you. Mr. Weiler.

I now give the floor to Mrs. Gill for two and a half minutes.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

To conclude, I would like to return to subclause 12(b) of the bill. The witnesses did not have time to answer my question about the interpretation of that provision, but I would like them to send a written response to the committee. We know what the form is, but we don't know what the reference is. Now, if we are going to do this seriously, we need to understand what it is.

I also wanted to talk about elders and survivors. My colleague Lori Idlout talked to you about that, and we will take note of your answers.

On the third page of the bill, right after the definitions section, the act's primacy is mentioned. It says that, “In the event of any inconsistency between this Act and the Canada Not-for-profit Corporations Act...this Act prevails to the extent of the inconsistency”.

I am not sure what this refers to. In the context of our committee's study, why is this provision needed and what does it mean? Could someone give me a concrete example to help me understand better?

[Michael DeGagné]

I think that's the legal process. It's part of the work that this transitional committee has agreed to do. Once the legislation winds its way through here, it will take on the task of legally establishing the organization itself. Someone has to file the documents. I don't think there's anything more to that than a mechanical effort.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

So you could say that it's just a matter of constitution. Thank you, that's exactly what I wanted to know.

I have 10 seconds left for one last point.

This may be because I am a member of the Bloc Québécois and we defend the French fact, but at the last committee meeting, I was surprised to hear two witnesses from the Innu nation say that they sometimes felt like they were far away.

The situation is not the same in all the communities of the nation, but their first language is Innu. With French being their second language, these witnesses wondered if there would be better representation of the French fact on the board of directors, since subclause 12(e) of the bill talks about various regions of Canada, including urban, rural and remote regions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Could the witness respond briefly, as Ms. Gill's last comment was over 10 seconds by far.

[Edith Cloutier]

Ms. Gill, I live in Quebec, I speak two languages and I have been on the National Council for Reconciliation Transitional Committee since 2017. I can confirm that we will ensure that both official languages are well represented on the council. This has always been a priority, and it still is today.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Idlout, we'll go to you now for two and a half minutes.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

Qujannamiik.

I think it's pretty obvious from my year here that indigenous languages are very important to me. I've introduced a bill to make amendments to the Elections Act so that indigenous language speakers can access election materials in their languages. I think this council will also need to be able to hear from indigenous people in their languages.

Do you think it will be important—whatever the indigenous language is—that Parliament provide the council the resources it needs, regardless of how many indigenous languages there are or how many indigenous language speakers there are in a language, so that indigenous language speakers are heard in the language they wish to be heard in?

[Michael DeGagné]

An organization I worked with previously was the Aboriginal Healing Foundation. After we were established and had operated for a few years, we conducted 36 regional consultations, from north to south and from east to west. We're speaking about an organization that dealt with indigenous residential and boarding schools. It was surprising to us that the number one issue most people had in those institutions was the loss of their language. It was surprising, because we were not set up to deal with language.

Even though we were not a language organization, there were questions raised about how we could do our part, at least, in making sure to support indigenous languages. We did so mainly with six language groups—to the extent we could—through print publications and that sort of thing.

I do not see the resources present in this organization to make it a language institution, but I would certainly see it as critical to ensure that we do what we can to support indigenous languages in print translation and in making our materials available in languages for children. I think efforts can be made there. As for whether or not they will be comprehensive enough, I don't think so, but efforts can certainly be made, when the organization is established, to honour as many indigenous languages as we can.

[Rosemary Cooper]

If I might, I'll supplement that point.

You raise a relevant point, MP Idlout. It's not only about the language of communication. The format of communication is also critical. I just came from Iqaluit yesterday, and the connectivity there was really slow compared to the main part of Canada. Using the different platforms for ways of communicating will also be critical given the formats that will be going forward.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Ms. Idlout.

We'll go to Mr. Zimmer for five minutes. That's who I have on my list.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll pass my time to Mr. Vidal.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Go ahead, Mr. Vidal.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to qualify my first round. If I appeared to come off a bit aggressively, it was not my purpose. I serve a riding that represents the second- and third-largest populations of indigenous people in the country by numbers and percentage, so I can sometimes get a bit passionate in my desire to make improvements to something I feel is lacking and could be made better. That's my purpose when I sit at this table.

I want to follow up a bit with Mr. DeGagné on the “efforts” conversation.

On the public record, one of your colleagues on the transitional committee and interim board of directors, Chief Littlechild, talked about the word “efforts” needing deletion. He said it should not say “efforts for reconciliation” but simply “advance reconciliation” because that would be more appropriate. We're on this journey, and we should be seeking to advance it.

Do you disagree with him given your comment about efforts being good? I'm sorry. I'm not trying to pit you against him; that's not my point. I think we're at a place where we need to seek to advance reconciliation, not just seem to be, or be seen to be, making efforts. That's where I'm coming from.

[Michael DeGagné]

I appreciate that, because whenever we see the phrase “best efforts”, it's letting you off the hook.

We want to keep the momentum going, and I think Wilton Littlechild's comments about advancing reconciliation are spot on. I wouldn't want to see something like “uphold reconciliation” or “ensure reconciliation”. I don't think we'd want to see that with any other issue in Canada, as if suddenly we had unlimited resources to make sure or be absolutely certain this happened.

Certainly, we want to make sure we advance things and that the momentum we have behind us so far can carry us forward. I'm in agreement with that kind of language.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

I appreciate that. I wanted to bring a little clarity to that and set my framework a bit clearer, if I didn't before.

I'm going to come to you with a question, Mr. Case, and you can add to others, if you want.

You talked about call to action 55 being provincial. I quickly went to look at it because I wanted to refresh my memory. I believe that out of seven points in call to action 55, five have a pretty significant federal component. In the legislation, we see a brief mention of call to action 55 in the preamble, but there's nothing in the “Purpose and Functions” section.

My colleague Mr. Schmale was talking about measurables. Some of my language around this has been.... Call to action 55 has some very clear and identifiable measures, so we can quantify and measure our success. There's the old adage that says what gets measured gets done. I would like to see some language that includes the items from call to action 55, but language that is not limited to just those. There are many more we could measure.

Would you agree that it's important we still measure some very quantifiable things to see whether we're achieving success on the journey to reconciliation?

[Mitch Case]

Yes, and I would absolutely agree that what gets measured gets done, but I would take issue with your analysis of the list in call to action 55. Those are in the federal jurisdiction and apply to on-reserve questions, but there are multiple issues where Métis communities are still left out of that despite it being many years since the Daniels decision. We're still trapped under provincial jurisdiction in places where Métis communities exist.

If you're only going to look at the federal component where there is a long-standing legacy of the federal government taking its responsibility for these issues seriously, then that will immediately start to leave out Métis communities, so—

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

I guess I would qualify it. I think I made it very clear that there are some very measurable items there. Yes, they do apply to federal jurisdiction regarding first nations, but I'll also open the door to say that there are some other things we could do to very clearly measure success as well.

I think we're saying the same thing, at the end of the day.

[Mitch Case]

The only caution I would add is that if you strengthen what you're asking of the national council, then you should strengthen its budget also.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

That's fair enough.

I'm running out of time, and I want to ask one more quick question.

A number of you made comments about economic reconciliation. It's something we've heard a lot about at this table, if you've been following.

Would you agree that in clause 12, where we talk about the group of representatives, there might be room to add somebody who brings to the table the concept of achieving economic reconciliation?

[Michael DeGagné]

I think that would certainly be contemplated. I mean, there are all sorts of different sectors where reconciliation is possible. I don't know that it's essential to list economic reconciliation as if to say that it's a special one, but it's certainly critical to reconciliation, just as rights and all of these other elements are.

I don't see it as having to be intentionally included. As I read it, it's already there.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Mr. Vidal.

We'll now go to Ms. Atwin for five minutes.