Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Dec. 1st, 2022

[Valerie Gideon]

As I mentioned earlier, in budget 2019 we were able to access a specific envelope for capacity enhancement, which was the first time we had the opportunity to do that. So far, we have those 196 emergency management coordinators who can act as that type of level of support in navigation, right? They can be housed in tribal councils. They can be housed in various service delivery organizations, or in communities as well.

I would say that our regional offices, as Joanne mentioned earlier, are making sure we are more proactive in terms of really going out and doing the outreach for nations where we have not seen requests come in. Also, there has been an expansion of the opportunities to do flood mapping, for example, and more monitoring and surveillance. The technology and the ability to do that have significantly improved across the country in the last couple of years. We saw it with hurricane Fiona and some of the coverage that went out on it. If we had not had that notice of even just a few days, it would have been a different scenario altogether with respect to the impacts of the hurricane.

These are things that are rapidly advancing. Our job is to advocate and to ensure that first nations will have access to those types of supports and to those types of intelligence initiatives, essentially.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

I appreciate that.

You mentioned that method of outreach, especially with communities where there hasn't been a lot of action or many applications coming in. How does that notification process work? Is it a phone call? Is there something on paper? Could you maybe help to explain how communities are notified when those funding streams become available?

[Joanne Wilkinson]

Absolutely, and I would say it's a mix. There's some proactive outreach, and we have frontline officers, funding services officers and those types of folks, who are also in regular contact with communities on the health side. Increasingly, we're making sure those conversations are integrated, so that it's all connected and we are doing the work for nations where they have challenges in terms of paperwork or in having those types of proposals come in.

We also increasingly have been holding joint gatherings across the country, so that nations leadership, technicians, provincial counterparts and federal counterparts gather in one spot. We try to use those to bring people to have some conversations that might not happen if you were sending an email, having a phone call and just having that organic discussion as well.

We're also looking to maximize the opportunities internally, right? If there is a situation that is emerging, we'll build on that and go back post emergency to have further conversations about how we learn lessons from it and expand that to others as well.

Thanks.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

I appreciate that. Thank you.

In a previous meeting with the Auditor General, I asked a question around the cost to first nations of these emergencies. Obviously the federal government and the provinces have a lot of support for communities, especially when it comes to evacuations and things of that nature, but there is also a cost to the first nations themselves.

I'm wondering if the department has any information or estimates around what those costs are for first nations when they are evacuating.

[Valerie Gideon]

We cover those costs through reimbursement of claims that are submitted to us. We are hoping that all communities have been sending us all of their bills, so that we are able to get a good sense of how the expenditures are rising.

It's important for us also for planning purposes, because part of the risk assessment is actually looking at the costs of the evacuations relating to specific first nations. That's part of the risk assessment. It definitely needs to be part of communities' emergency plans.

I don't know if you want to add anything, Kenza.

[Kenza El Bied]

Yes.

Something we do when there is a community that's facing an emergency situation is that we keep in contact with them and we go through all these costs. We make sure they have sufficient funding in place to respond to the situation. We help.

I'm just going to build on that. When we're talking about capacity, we have put in place a system whereby we connect with the community and with the members to respond to their needs and to see where there is a lack of capacity and how we can build it, either internally or by providing funds to increase the capacity for that moment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Mr. Melillo.

We'll go to Ms. Atwin for five minutes.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'm going to focus my questions around the recommendation from the report about improved reporting on progress towards United Nations sustainable development goals.

Can you speak, first of all, to why it's important to consider the United Nations sustainable development goals in the work of Indigenous Services Canada, and then to the reporting that has been done to date and perhaps the need to improve it?

[Valerie Gideon]

Typically, reporting of programs in government has been indicators around outputs like the number of people who have been evacuated and the number of people who have been repatriated. We contribute to the annual report of the government in terms of how Indigenous Services Canada and all of its suite of programs are advancing the UN's sustainable development goals.

I think the Auditor General's point was that within your actual, specific program, can you look at indicators that will be more reflective of those broader objectives of well-being, those broader objectives around sustainable environments? We can do that. We're going through a total renewal of our departmental results framework, which we see as a very important transformation.

Again, our department is not old. Our department was struck through a November 2017 order in council that enabled legislation a few years later. We've also faced multiple years, it feels like, of the pandemic in the midst of that. Our ability to do the full transformation that we've wanted to do has been a bit slowed down, but the departmental results framework, I think, is going to be absolutely key.

We agree with that recommendation, and it's linking things like mental health. Mental health and well-being, in the context of emergency preparedness and response, is a new concept for many. It's not something that was typically thought of in the context of planning efforts. We have looked at our whole health emergency preparedness plan in the context of the first nations mental wellness continuum framework.

I think it is just a question of making sure that the indicators of that program are more directly linked and establishing this and documenting that in the context of the program's management control framework and performance results framework.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

That's excellent. Thank you very much for that response.

I'll also focus in on the issue around communications. I've noticed in some reports around the AFN and looking at their emergency management responses that communication is an ongoing issue.

Can you speak to any innovations in communications that you have perhaps seen, or areas to be improved? I'm thinking about things like smoke alerts that are ahead of time so that communities can prepare. I'm just looking for innovations around communications issues.

[Valerie Gideon]

I'll turn to my colleagues around emergency preparedness in a broader sense, but I'll just say that during COVID-19, it was incredible to see the innovation with respect to communications.

We funded grassroots campaigns on vaccination, for example, and on protection of your elders and so forth, and then we would leverage social media for people to see what communities were doing on the ground with respect to COVID-19 versus just relying on federal spokespersons like me or something of that nature. We saw much better results with campaigns involving youth and campaigns involving indigenous celebrities and experts and moving that forward.

We're embedding that overall in terms of our communication strategies relating to reconciliation, but I'll turn it over to Joanne on the specifics.

[Joanne Wilkinson]

We're also certainly working in the emergency management space more broadly beyond COVID in terms of partners leading that communication, and also for our own staff, making sure that there are.... At the height of COVID, there were sometimes daily calls with leadership and with the folks in the regions to make sure that information was flowing.

In the emergency management space, we've really encouraged provinces and territories as well, when we have those trilateral discussions and daily—sometimes multiple times a day—calls with nations that are either on the cusp of evacuating or that are out of community, making sure first nations' voices are heard very clearly in that space, that they are full and equal partners at the table and that their views are listened to.

As was mentioned earlier, it's not just around planning but also around indigenous ways of knowing and doing, making sure the traditional knowledge piece is integrated into the planning and reflected in the communications more broadly.

Thank you.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

That's all for me, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

You have only about 25 seconds left, so thank you, Ms. Atwin.

Mr. Ste‑Marie, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Auditor General's report also mentions that the process of applying for first nations funding is complicated and that communities often do not have all the resources to submit these applications.

How did the department receive this element of the report? Since then, what steps have been taken to remove this barrier?

[Valerie Gideon]

I would like to add a clarification about the Indigenous Community Support Fund, which my colleague Ms. Wilkinson mentioned. This fund, which supports communities in the context of COVID‑19, has really been a best practice for us. First, it was set up very quickly. Secondly, people did not have to apply for funding. A base amount was given to each community and if communities had additional needs afterwards, they had to apply. I'm talking about an application, not a proposal; it's not the same thing. It was a much simpler process. We continue to operate in this way for COVID‑19 support. We are also considering this process for the Emergency Management Assistance Program.

Another way to help communities is really to have emergency management coordinators, as I've mentioned a few times. It helps a lot to have people assigned to these tasks. There doesn't necessarily have to be one in every community, but it could be a person in the tribal council, for example. Even if it is someone who works part-time or splits their time between a few communities, they can ensure that there is ongoing training and that the plan is updated regularly. Also, the emergency coordinator is in regular contact with the responsible people in the regional offices, so they know exactly who they are and can build a relationship with them.

In fact, it's similar to the directors we have in health and education in the communities. These people are very important in making sure that not only are contacts maintained with the department, but that the funding and planning are in place to deliver the services.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

I will take advantage of the time I have left to commend all the work you do. It is very important work. We know that there are many challenges and that it is not easy. I wish you all the best for the future.

I would like to turn over the few seconds I have left to my esteemed colleague the member for Nunavut.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Mr. Ste‑Marie.

Ms. Idlout, you will conclude our questions today with two and a half minutes, plus a bit more with what Monsieur Ste-Marie gave you.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

[Member spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]

Thank you.

First of all, I have a very simple question. On page 17 there is a diagram, exhibit 8.7. According to the written material, it talks about emergency evacuations of first nations, perhaps one to two years ago, or more years ago. We'd like to know why first nations that were evacuated in emergencies so many years ago can't go back to their homelands?

[English]

Can you provide, at a later date, a detailed written submission outlining why indigenous families have not yet been able to return to their home communities?

[Joanne Wilkinson]

First, about 97% of people who are evacuated are home within three months. There are, absolutely, folks who are out for way longer. Particularly in Manitoba, there were very devastating flood events. We are working very closely with the leadership of those communities in order to rebuild those communities, and build them back better, so that we can help to prevent these things from happening again.

It has been a long process. As you can imagine, family dynamics change over that amount of time. It's a very complex process, but we are working very closely with the leadership to get people home as quickly as possible.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

Can you submit to INAN detailed reports of why those families have not been able to return to their communities after those evacuations? You clearly know how many families haven't returned. You clearly know how many years they've been away from their homes. Can you provide documents to us that show why they haven't been able to return to their home communities?

[Valerie Gideon]

Yes.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

My next quick question is with regard to page 18 and paragraph 8.63, where it states, “One of Indigenous Services Canada’s objectives is to ensure that First Nations have access to emergency services comparable to those available in municipalities”. The Auditor General report said that there is no way for your department to see that comparability, because you haven't defined it yet.

Do you have plans to make sure this happens, so that we can see the comparison of how indigenous people's communities compare to non-indigenous communities?

[Valerie Gideon]

The reason we have bilateral service agreements with the majority of provinces and territories is to ensure that communities will be treated as other citizens in the province. We reimburse those costs to make sure this happens. The issue is that the service agreements do not explicitly state what service standards other citizens of the province can expect and therefore what first nations can expect.

It is that level of negotiation that is required in terms of the renewal and expansion of these service-level agreements, and also to ensure that culturally informed approaches are part of these agreements. Many of the agreements were negotiated many years ago. The idea is to really look at a transformed approach.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

Based on this audit report finding, will this department commit to ensuring that it is happening sooner rather than later?