Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Feb. 11th, 2022

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

I needed to clarify, and you've answered that it's grants that we're talking about.

Ms. Leach, have you submitted the reports that you mentioned to the committee?

[Dawn Madahbee Leach]

Not specifically, but they can be made available to the committee.

We talked about providing a summary of the national indigenous economic strategy that's soon to be released, so we'd be happy to provide some of those reports.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Please do.

When you talk about the 10% federal indigenous spending, are you talking about grant funding?

[Dawn Madahbee Leach]

There is a variety of programs and services, for sure, but when you look at the level of indigenous spending on economic development in the whole federal government, it's a small percentage right now. I've heard of numbers between 2% and 4% of the total federal government spend on indigenous economic development.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Are you asking for it to be 10% that you apply for by grants? That's what I'm asking.

[Dawn Madahbee Leach]

I see. I think that some of it can be in the form of loans. We currently deliver loan programs for indigenous businesses through the aboriginal financial institutions network, but there's also a need, of course, for grant programs—a combination.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

That's with the understanding that grants mean that you apply year by year and then they're basically funded on the application that you compete with, as Mr. Jourdain said.

[Dawn Madahbee Leach]

There are longer-term projects.

We need a new fiscal arrangement in Canada. Again, I want to emphasize how important it is for indigenous institutions to be involved in the delivery of these programs going forward.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

I got that, but you understand where I'm going here.

Mr. Davis, for what you are talking about in the sense of finances, are we talking about grant funding?

[Clint Davis]

No.

In terms of the recommendations I provided, I wasn't necessarily talking about grant funding. I was talking about—

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

I know you didn't, but I'm asking you in the sense of what you're receiving now from the federal government. Are you receiving and applying for grant funding?

[Clint Davis]

As Nunasi Corporation?

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

As whatever you're involved with.

[Clint Davis]

Okay. It's an interesting question.

Yes, we've applied for grant funding in the past. We've applied in the SREP program for renewable energy for Nunavut to see if we can actually help to spur some development opportunities in the territory. We've received federal support under COVID just like any other business across the country, so that's—

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

I got that part, but if we're talking about independence and you're talking about financial...and you making the decisions, we've heard from several indigenous witnesses saying grant funding does not work for independence. For decisions being made by indigenous people, they need to receive the funds and make the decisions—not accessing them on a rotating grant basis or fighting with others for them.

I'm going to quickly go back to Madame Leach.

Would you prefer block funding with no strings attached for that 10%?

[Dawn Madahbee Leach]

Yes. As I mentioned, I think we have the capacity now to deliver our own programming.

A new fiscal arrangement is really critical with respect to indigenous programming.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Thank you to the witnesses.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Mr. Shields.

We now go to Mrs. Gill for two and a half minutes.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have a question for Utshimau Jourdain.

In your opening statement, you mentioned a number of barriers, and you talked about bias. That really struck me. You said that deep-rooted bias was hurting the economic development of first nations.

I'd like you to elaborate on that. Could you give us examples of situations that you or people you know have experienced?

[Adam Jourdain]

That's a good question.

When I arrived, in 2014, economic development in the community of Wemotaci was at its lowest level, so we decided to do something about it. The bias against our community was hurting our ability to get projects off the ground. When we put forward our first projects, we would get laughed at during our presentations, even though the projects were well-thought-out and supported by business plans prepared by experts and reviewed by us. It was a very tough time.

Over the years, we gained credibility with federal and provincial institutions, and even financial institutions. Now, when we propose projects, we are taken seriously. We are professional in what we do, and we put together high-quality documentation.

Regardless, bias and fears persist. That's clear even from the interest rates financial institutions offer us. There is still some trepidation, even when the project is sound.

Here's the question: what happens when a non-Indigenous person and an indigenous person bring forward the same project? Are they treated the same? The two realities are entirely different. Let's tell it like it is.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Thank you for saying so. There are two sets of rules.

Are there things the government can do to reduce, if not eliminate, that deep-rooted bias? Of course, we all want to see it wiped out.

Now that Wemotaci is leading by example, other communities may wish to do the same.

How can the government help in that regard? Talk a bit about that, if you would.

[Adam Jourdain]

Bands are governed by rules, but the Indian Act is a major barrier. I think Mr. Davis and Ms. Madahbee Leach will agree with me on this. The Indian Act is a huge barrier to communities' economic development.

I would also say that the natural resource development happening all over the country, regardless of the region, is inequitable. We don't necessarily have a seat at the table when it comes to resource development. We'd like to be able to develop forest resources or take advantage of wind and water resources, but that's very difficult. The programs that exist prevent us from following our dreams. For example, I would love for us to have four or five dams that we could manage ourselves.

We have to look to the future, and to do that, we need to work together and advance the dialogue, as we are doing today. I feel good about the future.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Mr. Jourdain.

Ms. Idlout, you have two and a half minutes.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

[Member spoke in Inuktitut as follows:]

ᖁᔭᓐᓇᒦᒃ ᐊᐱᕆᔭᐃᓐᓇᕆᖅᖃᐅᒐᔅᓯ ᑖᓐᓇ ᒪᓕᒐᕐᔪᐊᖅ, ᐱᖁᑎᕐᔪᐊᕐᓄᑦ ᑮᓇᐅᔭᒃᑯᕕᒃ, ᑖᓐᓇ ᑲᔪᓯᒋᐊᕈᑎᒋᓂᐊᕋᒃᑯ. ᑕᒪᔅᓯ ᑭᐅᔪᖕᓇᕐᒪᖔᓯ. ᑖᒃᑯᐊ ᒪᓕᒐᕐᔪᐊᖅ ᑮᓇᐅᔭᒃᑯᕕᖓ ᐱᖁᑎᕐᔪᐊᕐᓄᑦ ᐊᑐᕆᐊᖅᓯᒪᓐᓂᕐᓴᖔᖅᓯᒍ, ᐄᖑᓐᓂᖅᐹᑦ, ᖃᓄᖅ ᑐᓗᖅᑕᕈᑎᖃᓚᐅᖅᐱᓯ?

[Inuktitut text interpreted as follows:]

Thank you.

I asked you all if you know about the Canada Infrastructure Bank Act. Have you ever had experience with it? What barriers did you encounter when you tried to access it?

[English]

[Dawn Madahbee Leach]

One of the things is that, usually, indigenous communities are at a disadvantage in competing with mainstream projects. That's always been an issue with respect to the infrastructure financing that's been available through the government.

I have to come back to the fact that I really believe that we need our own infrastructure institutes and resources to enable indigenous people to address a lot of the infrastructure issues such as Mr. Jourdain has just mentioned, for example, to participate in some of these electrification projects. There's the idea of the water and the lands, and also the air when we talk about the telecommunications spectrum. Why can't our indigenous communities benefit from some of that in our traditional territories?

We're definitely at a disadvantage when we have to compete with the mainstream in terms of infrastructure financing. That's my familiarization with that.