Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Oct. 26th, 2023

[Ben Carr, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thanks very much.

I'll cede the rest of my time, Mr. Chair.

[Michelle LeClair]

Can I just add—

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

There are 10 seconds left.

[Ben Carr, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

I cede my time to Madam LeClair.

[Michelle LeClair]

Thank you.

I just want to quickly say that this is not just a Métis problem: This is a first nations, Métis and Inuit problem.

We're looking in the news now. Two girls who claimed to be Inuit actually benefited by getting money to go to university. One way we're dealing with it in Saskatchewan is that we have signed a number of agreements. One is with the University of Saskatchewan, which has asked if they can verify the status of a Métis person who is applying for a job.

We're working on agreements with other institutions, as well as with the Government of Saskatchewan, because it has become a big problem.

These are creative ways that I think we can all deal with it. I know it happens here. It happens everywhere.

I just wanted to add that. Thanks for the 10 seconds.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Thank you so much.

Colleagues and witnesses, just so you know, the next round we have is about 25 minutes, which will take us to about 5:30. We've been going a little bit over.

We have resources until 5:42. I'll see where we're at. I'll check in at 5:30. If everybody is good for one more round, we'll go through that.

First up, for five minutes, is Mr. Vidal.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Thank you, Chair.

Chair, I want to come back to Mr. Case.

You just said a couple minutes ago, in a response to our colleague Mr. Carr, that all of the governments at the table use the national definition of Métis.

I want clarity, because my understanding is that this is not the case. In fact, I have a letter here written to President Froh from the president of Metis Nation-Saskatchewan that's talking about the challenge you've had historically over that national definition of Métis. There has been some long history to that, if I understand the process.

I just want some clarity. Unless I'm mistaken, the Manitoba Métis Federation actually left the MNC over the dispute over the use of that national definition of Métis.

I want to come back to you. I don't mean “claimed” as in I doubt you, but I just want clarity in the sense of the use of the national definition, please.

[Mitchell Case]

I'll respond really quickly, Mr. Vidal, and maybe Vice-President LeClair can respond for the MN-S part.

In 2002, the Métis National Council, the MNC, adopted that definition. At the following assembly after that—again, I was 11—the Métis Nation of Ontario adopted that definition into its registry policy and have been implementing it ever since.

There are questions from before that point. As President Froh said, we dealt with that, and 5,000 citizens were removed because they didn't meet the national definition.

Other people can say other things, but that's the truth.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Thank you. I'll follow that up.

Vice-President, do you want to comment at all on the president's letter, which was pretty emphatic about that definition and the history?

I want to give you the opportunity, but I do have another question for you, so don't go too long.

[Michelle LeClair]

Okay.

I don't know that I can get into it because it was a letter sent to Métis Nation of Ontario.

We all have the national definition, which we follow. I think the bigger issue was about those who didn't fit within that national definition, if I've read that right. Margaret has indicated to you that they had 5,000 members who didn't fit that definition and are no longer part of their organization.

We're all doing work to ensure that what we do is transparent. On that, we run our registry once a year against the INAC registry. If there are first nations people who have applied, it will come up that they have applied and have been accepted, and they're no longer a member of the Métis Nation-Saskatchewan.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Thank you.

I'm going to interject, because I am seriously running out of time. I want to ask one more question before they kick me out of this place today.

This has taken a long time to get here. In my office, we've monitored some indigenous legislation over the last couple of years. You talked about Bill C-29, which was introduced on the last day before the summer break. Bill C-38, which we finally debated last Friday, was introduced on the last day before last Christmas, and 11 months later we're actually debating it in the House of Commons. Bill C-53 was finally introduced on the last day before the summer break in June 2022.

This has taken a long time. I think there were several promises, dates and expectations created for your leaderships by the government.

I'm going to start with you, Michelle. You keep getting cut off by being last, so I'm going to start with you.

Do you want to comment at all on what you think took so long, why it took so long, or why it took until the very last minute, when I know this was promised several times in advance of that?

[Michelle LeClair]

I can only say that we have been frustrated. We've had dates. I think it was supposed to go in on April 19, and then apparently there were some things happening, and then finally we ended up at the last day before you guys recessed for the summer.

I think we would be as interested to know the answer to that question as you are, and that question should be directed at Canada, because we have co-developed this. We've worked together in good faith, as of course we would. We would love to hear the answers to that question.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

I promise you that when the minister is here, I will ask that question.

[Michelle LeClair]

Okay. Thank you.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

We're going to move to Ms. Gainey now, online, for five minutes.

[Anna Gainey, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

Thanks, and thank you as well to the witnesses for their insight and the hard work that they all have clearly contributed to getting here today.

I'm curious, as we've heard UNDRIP come up a couple of times. Specifically, I think, clause 4 in the bill does state that one of the purposes is to “contribute to the implementation of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples”, so I'm wondering if each of you could take a moment to explain how, in your view, this legislation does that.

[Margaret Froh]

I think you've heard all of us say that this bill really is reconciliation in action. It is putting the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples into action. I wanted to thank the honourable member for the question.

Article 3 specifically talks about indigenous peoples' rights to self-determination, and article 4 specifically talks about the right to have autonomy or self-government. Article 33 of the UN declaration speaks to the rights of indigenous peoples “to determine their own identity or membership in accordance with their customs and traditions”, and what you see in Bill C-53 is exactly that. It's a recognition of those inherent rights of self-determination and self-government. In fact, it's built right into Canada's national action plan on implementing the UN declaration; and as has been said before, I believe every time we see an indigenous nation being recognized and being respected in this way, it actually makes all of us stronger. It makes Canada stronger.

Marsifor the question.

[Andrea Sandmaier]

I don't think I can say any more than what President Froh has said. We have over 200 years of history of being the forgotten people, of being promised things and having lots of broken promises, and the bill and UNDRIP recognize that the Métis people have been forgotten about. We just need you to move forward and get this bill passed so that we can govern ourselves in the way that we have always believed that we have been doing.

Thank you.

[Michelle LeClair]

I really don't have anything to add. I think Margaret and Andrea have said what I would say.

[Anna Gainey, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

John, do I have any time?

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Yes, you still have two minutes left.

[Anna Gainey, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

You've mentioned children and families. We touched a little bit on the complexities around Jordan's principle. I'm wondering if you could be a little more specific about how this will impact the health and well-being of your communities, especially children, in a practical sense. What are the problems that you see this solving for the kids and for their families in your communities?

[Michelle LeClair]

Okay, how long is this afternoon?

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

That's in two minutes.