Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Nov. 19th, 2025

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I forgot to ask you to kindly keep your answers brief because I have a lot of questions for you, but thank you for that answer. As I understand it, relying on the Royal Canadian Mounted Police prevents the Manitoba Métis Federation from implementing its own culturally based security and law enforcement model.

You signed partnership agreements with the RCMP to improve relations and create liaison positions. Do these agreements result in real changes, or are they limited by financial or jurisdictional constraints?

[David Chartrand]

I'll try to keep it very short.

Yes, the changes are so small. They do occur. All it does is give us a direct collaboration to maybe speak of an issue that may have occurred in the community.

The liaison position that's appointed in our offices is gone now, but when it was there, we had no say or dialogue with that person because he had to report directly to the head of his department in the RCMP. Yes, they rented offices from us or the state—we gave them free offices, by the way, because they had no money—but there was no real collaboration, so it didn't make change. It was good for image. We enjoyed it and we respected it, but it made no change.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Many justice and prevention programs receive short-term, very unpredictable federal funding.

In your opinion, which long-term, unconditional funding model would best respect Métis autonomy while ensuring the stability of culturally appropriate Métis justice services?

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Give a short answer, please.

[David Chartrand]

Well, the interpretation came late. There was nothing there. Again, I do apologize. I don't speak French. I speak Saulteaux, my second language.

Clearly, the answer is that, if there was a direct investment—and I think that's why it's so vital—it could be measured. Is it working? Is it not working? If you do pan-aboriginal kind of approaches, we will never be able to measure whether it's a success or not. There is no program, no design by Canada or the provinces to deal with Métis villages, none.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Thank you.

We have MP Billy Morin for five minutes, please.

[Billy Morin, Conservative, Edmonton Northwest, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

I want to go to Chief Doss-Cody.

Chief, I think you said you have 36 years of service. Is that correct?

[Chief Deborah Doss-Cody]

That's correct.

[Billy Morin, Conservative, Edmonton Northwest, AB]

As a chief of police and in all your years of service, for you, your staff and the people you serve, is it fair to say that the expectation as a police officer and a protector of the community is that, to protect people in any tough situation, you are expected to give your life and your service?

[Chief Deborah Doss-Cody]

Yes, we're here to serve and protect, like any other municipal or RCMP federal police service. We have the same training, and if anything happens, then we're the ones who attend any calls that come in, regardless of what they are. Our officers are investigating anything from assisting the general public to firearms complaints, sex assaults or domestic calls—things of that nature. We investigate them from start to finish.

The only thing we do not do is if there is, say, a homicide, or something that requires specialized services. We then call out to the RCMP to come in and assist for those specialized services. We assist them by obtaining statements and assisting with the investigation, but we do not hold that investigative file.

[Billy Morin, Conservative, Edmonton Northwest, AB]

Thank you for that answer, Chief.

The RCMP is an essential service. Essentially, they do not have to wait for funding and things of that nature. We talked about the stresses to the other police forces, in terms of sustainability and everything. They're also expected to put their lives on the line for the services they do. What does it say about the value of your life and your officers' lives when you do not get the same funding and supports as other police forces?

[Chief Deborah Doss-Cody]

To us, it indicates that we are less than...that we are not as important. It doesn't even make sense. I cannot make sense of that at all in 2025.

[Billy Morin, Conservative, Edmonton Northwest, AB]

It's tough to hear, Chief. I hate to disappoint you even further, but we had the public safety minister here, who's also the CIRNAC minister. He gave no commitment to make the service essential going forward, but rest assured, I still hope, through all the testimony and your testimony today, that this can be changed in the years to come. Let's not stop fighting the good fight.

Thank you for your testimony today.

[Chief Deborah Doss-Cody]

Thank you.

[Billy Morin, Conservative, Edmonton Northwest, AB]

President Chartrand, I want to acknowledge Louis Riel Day, which was a few short days ago, and welcome you to Ottawa. I hope it's been a great week of celebrations for you and your community.

Indigenous nations, as some of my colleagues have mentioned, include Métis, obviously. In Manitoba, there have been some high-profile aspects of disappointments and tragedies when it comes to indigenous women, missing and murdered women. Of course, that would include Métis women as well.

Can you discuss some of the successes over the last couple of years and also some of the areas for improvement from the police services and the governments when it comes to protecting indigenous women and girls in Manitoba, including Métis women?

[David Chartrand]

First, on your question earlier for the chief of police, there used to be a program, which I encourage you to look up. It was called the constable B program. That was the position in which they used indigenous officers, but paid them less and treated them less well. They're called constable Bs. They're on reserve in some Métis villages. That was the whole program many, many years ago. Too bad they killed it.

Going to the question you asked, there's clearly a lot more that has to be done when it comes to missing and murdered indigenous women and LGBT+2 communities, because even we, our own government, put up $1 million of our own money for that—not Canada's money, not provincial money, our own hard-earned money. We put $1 million up to assist all indigenous women, first nations, Inuit and Métis. If they're missing, then we'll put up a reward of $10,000 to help find them. It's not that simple too, though it sounds easy, because you need to have a collaboration with the police and because when we put up the reward, they get a ton of calls. They have to have someone manning the phones.

You have to give the police credit in some ways. They've done a lot in achieving or finding results. I know that in Winnipeg, in Manitoba, the RCMP and Winnipeg police have found or achieved a lot of the end results and closed files. You have to give the police credit for that.

However, there were also, I think, a lot of times when racism kicked in because the person was poor or maybe seen working in the streets. They're not given the same kind of respect when they're missing. That's where you see the serial killers and others who are taking advantage of that.

Again, from our perspective, I know they can state long and hard that they're short officers, but at the end of the day, we know we have to do our part. That's why I said we put up our own $1 million. So far, we've had first nation and Métis women who are still missing, but we have put up rewards. We'll keep on doing the program ourselves. I wasn't going to wait for the government.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Thank you very much for that. I very much appreciate that.

Next is Brendan for five minutes.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Thank you very much to both of you for being here.

Chief Officer Doss-Cody, I'll start with you.

I don't think you had a chance to finish what you were going to say, including recommendations. You did refer to the previous promise by Prime Minister Trudeau to introduce indigenous policing as an essential service. I presume you were going to come back to that. If you have a finishing recommendation that you want to leave us with, feel free to do so.

I also want to get a quick picture of what, in Stl'atl'imx Nation and other nations in your region, community safety looks like. Whether it's through your policing service or through collaborative services, how are you addressing community safety? Are there gaps or are you seeing challenges there?

[Chief Deborah Doss-Cody]

Yes, there are definitely challenges. We currently expanded our agreement to 10 years. However, due to the funding and the way it is, one of the things in relation to the funding agreements is that it's not a negotiation. It is a case of, “This is what we allot.” There's never any real.... It's not based on population. It's not based on stats. Like, what is it? There's never any real methodology or system that we're told is how it's going to roll out. That's one of the things that needs to be clarified in relation to these funding agreements, namely, what is it? Is it based on population? Is it based on crime stats? I say this because if you look at indigenous policing in our communities, oftentimes with the crime statistics you will see that in British Columbia, we had the second highest Criminal Code stats in the province. We cover 22,000 square kilometres of territory, 10 communities, and we have 10 officers.

We do have a good working relationship with the RCMP and are currently working on an MOU, which needs to be updated. We did implement a municipal pension plan, which I understand a lot of other police services across the country do not have. It was definitely a challenge for us, but we did implement that. Has it helped us with recruiting and retention? I'd say it's fifty-fifty. One of the things I would like to state regarding the funding model, whether it's based on the crime severity index or on indigenous populations or other stats, such as the size of the territory, or the files that come in—

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

I'm going to leave it there, so I have a couple of minutes left, but feel free to send anything in writing, including, of course, your notes, if there's anything else that you'd like the committee to take away and inform our recommendations.

[Chief Deborah Doss-Cody]

Thank you.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

President Chartrand, I was interested in that, in your opening remarks, you specifically mentioned Bill C‑14, which, of course, is currently being debated in the House. Recognizing not just your role as president but also your background in justice, we were having a conversation before the meeting started.

Are you seeing that this is going to be important in addressing, at the federal level, some of the gaps in bail reform and other measures to address repeat offences in particular?

[David Chartrand]

For sure. We've seen a change in the drugs that are in our communities. Not only are drugs like crack, cocaine and cannabis and the rest moving into the communities, which are then used by people, but they've gone now to prescription drugs, Tylenol 3 and so forth. They're taking from our elders. They're going to our elders' homes, breaking into the elders' homes and taking those pills.

You used to hear stories of people having parties, and everybody brought 12 or 24 beers. Today they come in with bags of pills and throw them into a bowl, and they all just grab from there. Those are prescription pills. They are not drugs of some sort being made. Those are causing great harm, and those same people who are breaking in are going to jail. They're picked up later. They find out who it is. They're out the next day. Then they're threatening the elders now, and the elders are too scared to become a witness, too scared to tell on them. It's causing us harm because justice, maybe a long time ago, was going and visiting that young person's house and telling him that he'd better not go to the elder's house again or else we'd take care of him. Those days are gone. We can't touch them. We can't do our own policing ourselves with our own hard lines.

Clearly today the revolving door is causing issues. It's unfortunate, but the sad part is a reverse position you have to be scared of because, if you look at who's in the jails, it shows that indigenous people make up the highest number in this country. They're the ones that are going to be more interactive with the bail reform necessities.

Studies have shown that non-indigenous people were able to get bail faster because they had parents who were working, parents who had resources and parents who could buy good lawyers. When you start looking at all of that data and information, there's still has to be a process where people can't just walk in and walk out. That's why, when I wrote that court model years ago along with judges, it was where we would have the community control and adjudicate the matter in their village.

You would know if Tommy was the one acting up. Now the defence lawyer goes into the courtroom and says, “Oh, Tommy's looking for work every day. He's doing this.” We know Tommy's at home sleeping and that he's drunk on the weekends. Don't come to a court and lie to us. The judge doesn't see that, but if you're doing it in the community, the community sees it. They'll say, “Don't lie to us. Tommy was drunk the other day. We saw him.”

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Thank you.

[David Chartrand]

Don't give us any excuses here.

Those systems were truly remarkable and made a big difference, but that's gone now. We need to figure out how we take it back.