Evidence of meeting #13 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was communities.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Philip Earle Liberal Labrador, NL
Thank you.
Mr. Yew, thank you for telling us about your company, TIPI. I think I understand very well how it's structured, and I commend you on your involvement of elders and so on.
Would you suggest that your business came about because of necessity, or did it come about because of opportunity?
Chief Executive Officer, Turtle Island Private Investigators Inc., As an Individual
Necessity is one of the main reasons. We're seeing what's happening throughout northern Saskatchewan, and we're seeing fewer and fewer police forces.
We were seeing a lot of stuff happening, and we knew we could be part of the solution by offering our services and stuff.
Liberal
Philip Earle Liberal Labrador, NL
You talk a lot about working with the RCMP. I realize that you're in northern Saskatchewan. Do you have any experience of working with first nations policing versus working with the RCMP? If you do, is there a marked difference between working with the two in your experience?
Chief Executive Officer, Turtle Island Private Investigators Inc., As an Individual
No, we don't have first nations policing in our area other than File Hills, which is in southern Saskatchewan. We're in northern Saskatchewan.
Liberal
Philip Earle Liberal Labrador, NL
I have time for one last question for you.
As you work diligently to assist the communities, what is the one thing that interferes most with the services that you try to provide?
Chief Executive Officer, Turtle Island Private Investigators Inc., As an Individual
I'm sorry, what's...?
Liberal
Philip Earle Liberal Labrador, NL
As you work with the various communities to do the great work that you're doing, what's the one thing that interferes with your ability to work with those communities? Is there one thing?
Chief Executive Officer, Turtle Island Private Investigators Inc., As an Individual
I guess we don't have any issues with anybody. Everybody accepts us. The problems we face at times are because of the lack of policing.
When we do private investigations and forward that information to the police force, they don't respond as I would respond with regard to stepping up and going a little bit faster with regard to drug dealers and stuff.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Terry Sheehan
Thank you very much. That brings us to the very end.
Thank you to our witnesses.
I will remind our witnesses and people listening that, if they wish, they can still make submissions in writing to the clerk to be included in the study.
We're going to suspend for a minute. Let's have a quick turnaround.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Terry Sheehan
Welcome back.
We're going to start our second round.
We have, appearing as individuals, Lyle Herman, mayor of the northern village of La Loche; and Sheila North, indigenous advocate and adviser. From the Prince Albert Grand Council, we have Vice-Chief Joseph Tsannie.
You each have five minutes.
We will start with Sheila.
Sheila North Indigenous Advocate and Advisor, As an Individual
[ Witness spoke in Cree]
[ English]
Hi, everyone.
My name is Sheila North and I'm from the Bunibonibee Cree Nation in northern Manitoba. I'm very happy to be here with you to talk about what I know about policing as a former grand chief of my region in northern Manitoba, a former journalist in Manitoba and across Canada and, now, as an adviser to the Winnipeg Police Service.
Policing is deeply rooted in the history and lived experiences of first nations people. For countless generations, there have always been roles within our nations dedicated to keeping our people and communities safe. These were, and continue to be, the natural keepers of peace—the protectors responsible for our survival and well-being.
I know that this committee has already heard many accounts about what is missing in indigenous policing. Much of it comes down to two things: a lack of funding and a lack of political will. I agree with this assessment, and I want to emphasize again that the role of simâkanisak, police, has always existed among first nations and will continue to exist. What we need now from governments, federal, provincial and municipal, is to recognize that authority and to provide the resources necessary for our communities to be safe.
As you've likely heard in the news and from your constituents, crime is a real concern. We are seeing increasing incidents of drug- and alcohol-related crimes. People are being hurt and, in some cases, as you know, losing their lives all because of rising tension and crime in communities, including in first nations.
To address crime and improve public safety, resources must be released for training, equipment, infrastructure and new technologies, like body-worn cameras. We also need to recognize that indigenous policing is not always the same as mainstream policing. Those differences must be respected. Part of that means ensuring indigenous people can see themselves in these roles so that when someone is in crisis, they can look to someone who understands their community, their language and their culture.
There are many examples showing that crime decreases when first nations police their own communities. I'm sure you've heard some of them during the study; in fact, I know you just did in the first group. I can add that my own community of Bunibonibee Cree Nation and others have seen drops in crime, increased feelings of safety and stronger governance when first nations police and peace officers have been present.
Instead of denying resources that are needed, we should focus on improving recruitment of indigenous police officers not only in first nations police forces but also in the RCMP and municipal agencies, such as the Winnipeg Police Service. We need officers who speak first nations languages and who know their communities, and yes, even those individuals who have a criminal past but have demonstrated real determination to make a positive change, but have trouble getting into the forces. These individuals deserve access to training and, in some cases, to pardons that allow them to serve as a simâkanis, police officer.
What we need most are culturally sensitive, trauma-informed officers who understand their people and their communities.
In closing, yes, there is a long and well-documented history of policing within first nations. Yes, funding and recognition of first nations policing authority remain major issues, and, yes, we have strong examples showing what first nations policing does and how it works. That is needed more than ever.
Ultimately, this, to me, is about self-determination in policing. It aligns with recommendations you have already heard in this study and with the findings of the MMIWG calls for justice, the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, the aboriginal justice inquiry and many other important reports.
[ Witness spoke in Cree]
[English]
Thank you.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Terry Sheehan
Thank you very much, Sheila.
Go ahead, Lyle, for five minutes, please.
Lyle Herman Mayor, Northern Village of La Loche, As an Individual
Good afternoon. Thank you for having me.
I'm Lyle Herman, the mayor of La Loche. I am also from the first nation band CRDN, Clearwater River Dene Nation. Also, while here, I will be representing the north. I am the vice-president of the northern caucus of SUMA, which governs 35 communities in the north, which is why I'm here today.
We've heard many testimonies today about the RCMP shortage. To highlight what was said earlier, I will say that sometimes I have a population of nearly 4,000, with a neighbouring reserve—my reserve—with a population of 1,500. Also, the RCMP does go to other communities. The closest one is about 45 minutes away, and it has just under 2,000 residents. With regard to the shortage, there should be a policy to have temporary coverage while recruiting more permanent officers, and this could possibly go into effect when staffing drops to 90%. The shortage leads to a high number of case files per officer, which leads to cases not getting the attention they need. This also leads to burnout.
We need to improve accountability for repeat offenders. This catch-and-release program, which I have been notified doesn't seem to exist, seems to be there. This model not only is detrimental to the community members who are being repeatedly victimized but also is unfair to those RCMP officers who are being seen as ineffectual by the community. This causes negative community sentiment towards the RCMP and more brazen illegal activity by a criminal element who no longer fear incarceration.
At one time, I was down in my community, where we have five officers. They told me that if they get a call to a neighbouring community, which is 40 minutes away, and at the same time there's a break and enter, if it's domestic violence that's happening 40 minutes away, then two officers have to leave the community to attend that. By the time they come back, nearly two to three hours have gone by. We may have a staff of five, but that doesn't mean they're constantly on 24-7. The lack of policing has an effect on the crime rate going up.
We need access to funding to train community members to become safety officers. Having trained citizens hired to assist with maintaining public order would benefit communities across the north that are struggling with rising crime. We also need to address the rampant drug trafficking in the north. We need detox, addictions counselling and other supports for those who need the help. There is currently very little support for those trying to move to a healthy lifestyle.
I have always been a bold believer of getting to the root cause. One of the highlights of the issues in the north is housing. If we do not have local, qualified members to fill these positions, then how can we attract outside professionals when we can't house them? I had many meetings with the SHA with regard to this. I told them this in two meetings. At the second meeting, I told them that they were wasting my time. If we have no housing for these people, then why was I being invited there? When I spoke to SHA officials, I said, “I understand there are 12 to 15 vacancies for mental health therapists.” Now, with this crisis going on, I had a teacher recently leave. I have health care staff, nurses and doctors, who are threatening to leave because of the ongoing break and enters. One teacher left about two weeks ago. There had been six break-ins since she arrived in La Loche full-time.
In closing, we need to get to the root causes, but a lack of policing also causes the rise in criminal activity, and these criminals know it.
Liberal
Vice-Chief Joseph Tsannie Vice-Chief, Prince Albert Grand Council
Thank you.
[Witness spoke in Denesuline]
[English]
My name is Joseph Tsannie. I'm currently the vice-chief of the Prince Albert Grand Council. I've been serving as a community leader since a very young age as a councillor for my first nation Treaty 10 territory up in Hatchet Lake from the age of 18. I've been advocating for community activities to try to change the story at a very young age, trying to provide youth programming, volleyball, etc., to get our young people into mainstream sports to build leaders. To change those stories and for them to have those opportunities, I think it starts at the community level. However, coming from an isolated community, with no road currently—we're building a road that will be completed next fall to one of our communities—it's about giving those opportunities to our young people, having access to quality sports and rec programs in our communities. Land-based education is continually happening in our communities, so it's very important.
In 2012, I was elected to the grand council. A lot of my time was spent just being the mediator with the RCMP in our communities. You heard today about the challenges with alcohol and drugs coming into our communities. About a year and a half ago, our health staff notified me and said that we have meth in all of our communities now. It continues to be a challenge. Our leaders at the community level continue to call me asking me to do something about the RCMP in the community. One of the leadership said to me, “Why are they even in our communities when they're not willing to work with us?” A lot of times the intervention I do is bringing people together, getting them to talk and try to come up with solutions.
In 2018, I got tired of weekly interventions with the RCMP, so I asked for a mandate from our 12 chiefs within the grand council. We tried to start our own police force for the grand council. We have 28 communities. We have a Dene community, a Cree community, a Swampy Cree, Plains Cree, Dakota and Woodland Cree within the grand council. In 2019 we hadn't been in the process of developing our own police force, so we developed a road map. We brought in the Navajo Nation and the File Hills police force. From right across the country, we brought in first nation judges, prosecutors, you name it, to help us develop that road map and how we could get to where we wanted to be.
In 2022, we had the signing of the LOI, letter of intent, with Minister Mendicino, who came to Prince Albert. We've been working on building relationships with the federal government and the provincial governments coming together and the RCMP. I believe it's about building those relationships and trust and moving forward together. All parties agreed. We signed the LOI in 2022. Now we're just in the final stages of completing that feasibility study on how that policing is going to look. In March, we should have it finalized.
In terms of why we don't have.... That is the intent of giving our young people another opportunity. We have a lot of high school graduates who are graduating, but they wouldn't want to join the police force because of the past wrongs that have been done. You hear how our indigenous people are getting shot and people are getting away with it.
Those things are still there and are the reasons why people wouldn't want to join the police force. However, we're here and we want to change the story. We want our own police organization, the Prince Albert Grant Council, and have our young people join the police force and go into the justice system to try to change that story.
Another big problem I want to raise is the overincarceration of indigenous people in federal institutions. I visited one of our members in Kent Institution, where he wasn't properly represented. We want to make sure that our people don't get caught up in the system.
The whole training of people in indigenous policing, getting those opportunities, is very important.
I stand with our fellow presenters today. The essential service of policing is very important. It's a step that needs to happen in order for us to change the story. It is important.
Somewhere down the road, the appetite to have that jurisdiction over indigenous policing in the justice system within first nations communities is very important.
I'll leave it there.
Thank you. Marsi cho.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Terry Sheehan
Thank you. Chi meegwetch.
First off are the Conservatives and Billy for six minutes.
Conservative
Billy Morin Conservative Edmonton Northwest, AB
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you to our guests for coming in today.
I'm going to start with Mayor Herman.
As recently as last week, the Meadow Lake Tribal Council was on the news declaring a state of emergency in policing up in northern Saskatchewan. Were you part of that announcement or any of the partnerships with the chiefs at the tribal council?
Mayor, Northern Village of La Loche, As an Individual
No. At this time, we do not share a partnership, but I am working on building that relationship with my reserve at this time.
I was well aware of that declaration of a state of emergency. Chief Yellowback said a community has declared a state of emergency. We have looked into that option, but it clearly shows that even if we declare a state of emergency, help is still not coming.
Conservative
Billy Morin Conservative Edmonton Northwest, AB
Do you have any faith that a timeline can be overcome when it comes to that particular state of emergency, or do you think it will be ignored?
Mayor, Northern Village of La Loche, As an Individual
Even if we declare it, I feel like it will be ignored.
As I said when I presented, we need to get to the root causes. Laws have to change here in Parliament so that these offenders in our community.... They're beautiful communities. It's just a selective few who are causing these problems. We know that, and so do the police. I had one police officer swearing at me, saying this is BS. They know who's doing it, but the courts still let them out.
Unfortunately, one incident happened when citizens decided to take care of the problem themselves, but then the individual was thrown out. I don't want to see innocent citizens going to jail because the police are not there.
Conservative
Billy Morin Conservative Edmonton Northwest, AB
Thank you, Mayor.
I'll go to Sheila North, building on what I asked Chief Yellowback earlier.
You're also from the north. I think you're from Treaty No. 5. Is that right?
Conservative
Billy Morin Conservative Edmonton Northwest, AB
This is a similar line of questioning.
There's this expectation of the Crown corporation Manitoba Hydro, Churchill and a whole bunch of economic activity in the north, but communities are still in crisis when it comes to policing, safety, addictions and poverty.
How fair is it that communities are still in those crises, but they're getting the same pressure to expand on the economic side?
Indigenous Advocate and Advisor, As an Individual
That's a really good point.
For full disclosure, I'm also an adviser to the Arctic Gateway Group. One of the things I'm currently advising them is that they need to develop a protocol on how they work with the nations they're partnering with, governed by and owned by. It should be a standard now with every industry, whether it's economic or any other type of industry, that in Canada, they need a protocol on how they work with first nations. That includes respecting families, their safety and their basic human rights.
One protocol I was introduced to is in southern Ontario, in Shoal Lake. They have a protocol for people who come to work in the community. They have to sign a declaration that they will conduct themselves properly, as they would with their own families, for example, when they agree to come to work in the nation.
The reality is that our communities are very vulnerable, even right now, as you know. We need to develop better relationships with all of the first nations anybody works with.
Conservative
Billy Morin Conservative Edmonton Northwest, AB
Thanks, Chief. I appreciate the solutions focus, as well as citing other jurisdictions that are doing some unique things.
Vice-Chief Tsannie, we've been discussing policing in indigenous communities. “Essential” is what we hear every single time, and declaring that “essential”. We've also heard stories of remote communities. As remote as they are, there are still criminals and people who would want to commit wrongdoings and sell drugs. They're pretty sophisticated.
Do you feel like your northern communities are being targeted by people who are not from the community? They might not even be from northern Canada, but they're driving up, flying in or however they come in to systematically target your communities. There's a portrayal that if the RCMP is not there and if policing is inadequate, they could take advantage of that situation.