Evidence of meeting #13 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was communities.
A video is available from Parliament.
Vice-Chief, Prince Albert Grand Council
I'm not really aware, or I haven't heard any stories, of outsiders coming in and selling alcohol and drugs in our communities, but certainly, there are people who are transporting alcohol and drugs into our communities. I'm assuming that since we're building some of these roads, those activities might come up, but hopefully we can have some control over that.
Liberal
Ginette Lavack Liberal St. Boniface—St. Vital, MB
Hello, everyone.
Thanks to the witnesses for being with us. I also want to thank them for their testimony.
Ms. North, your role as external advisor with the Winnipeg Police Service was created to provide it with an independent indigenous viewpoint.
What are the key lessons you have learned, in particular regarding accountability, community relations and trust, that could guide other police forces or a future federal framework?
Indigenous Advocate and Advisor, As an Individual
Thank you very much, and thank you for the invitation to be here, Madam Lavack. l also want to acknowledge my support person here, former RCMP member Jacqueline Genaille.
Yes, I am working as an adviser to the Winnipeg police. One thing I'm noticing immediately is that there is a willingness with the police force to want to work with and understand the indigenous community. I think that's to the credit of the murdered and missing indigenous women and girls inquiry and others like it. There has been a lot of good coming out of that, in that aspect.
There's still a lot of work to do and a lot of room to grow. The training and the everyday setting of the tone from the top, in police agencies like the Winnipeg Police Service, are very important. The reality is that indigenous people are all over this country. They have always been all over this country. We're nomads. We move back and forth to the community. The relationships have to be there and have to be respected. That is definitely one thing that I continue to strive for and try to build connections with.
It is very important that all police forces understand, are trauma-informed and actually understand, the history of this country and what brought us to where we're all at right now. Governments, including provincial governments, can play a part in finding ways to give better accessibility to training and to recruitment of officers in not just first nations policing but in all the other municipal and national police forces as well.
Liberal
Ginette Lavack Liberal St. Boniface—St. Vital, MB
Thank you.
If the federal government adopted legislation on indigenous police services tomorrow, what three priorities should be included in it so it has a real effect on safety and trust in the communities?
Indigenous Advocate and Advisor, As an Individual
Paramount is the sovereignty. They need to develop their own systems. They're the ones who know their community the best. We've been police officers in our own communities, and peacekeepers in our own nations, for many generations, ever since we were around. I know that, because in our language we have a term for police: simâkanisak. These people are very important. They need to have autonomy. The nations need to have autonomy on how they develop these police forces. They are slightly different from the mainstream, and that needs to be respected. Training of officers is also very important. Of course, the funding and the political will need to be there, because there seems to be a big, big gap.
Liberal
Ginette Lavack Liberal St. Boniface—St. Vital, MB
Thank you.
My question may be a bit premature, but Ms. Anderson‑Pyrz, who was on the last panel, talked about the possibility of implementing a “Red Dress” alert pilot project here in Winnipeg. The report will be presented tomorrow, and I am here in Winnipeg to participate in the presentation.
Are you familiar with this project?
Do you have any ideas about what effects it might have on the ground?
Indigenous Advocate and Advisor, As an Individual
Yes, I've heard of it. I've seen a little bit of the work to study it and some of the discussions on implementing it. It is very important to have this resource available, because we know the history of what happens when women go missing. Sometimes cases are missed or cases are ignored. If we have a consistent system that treats every case equally, I think that will help.
Liberal
Ginette Lavack Liberal St. Boniface—St. Vital, MB
Thank you, Ms. North.
Mr. Herman, what do you think are the mechanisms for coordination between municipalities, provinces and indigenous services that should be included in a federal law to improve safety?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Terry Sheehan
We just got a message from interpretation that the sound quality has disintegrated.
Try that one more time. Maybe lower the boom on your microphone.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Terry Sheehan
Unfortunately, no. Let's move on.
Thank you very much.
Mr. Lemire, you have the floor.
Bloc
Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
Thank you.
Ms. Lavack, I think we are thinking along the same lines, in any case, so I am going to be able to pick up on your question a bit.
Mr. Herman, I was troubled by your testimony. You talked about things that were discussed yesterday, in the community of Notre‑Dame‑du‑Nord, and specifically by its mayor, Michel Vaillant. He talked about thefts and organized criminal activities and he is afraid things are getting out of control. Some people want to take justice into their own hands, because the police presence is not sufficiently robust. You said this had happened in your community.
Can you tell me about the consequences of that situation and ways it could have been averted?
Mayor, Northern Village of La Loche, As an Individual
A way it could have been avoided is that there should have been adequate policing, but there is not.
There was an incident in the United States where a veteran opened fire on three young men, and the law of the land in the U.S. pretty much protected him.
When somebody is breaking into your home and you have children, a family, at what time do you decide that it's life-threatening? It might lead to a break and enter, but at the same time, do they have a gun or a knife? If you saw them, are they going to hurt you or kill you? As an individual, when do you decide if your life is on the line?
There are laws in this land that seem to pretty much protect the criminals. Do not engage with them, and do not harm them, but call the police. How can you call the police, though, when there aren't enough police?
You can forget about security systems. If there's a break and enter at a home in my community and the alarm is going off, but at the same time, there's a domestic violence situation happening somewhere else, the police are going to triage the calls.
Adequate policing is needed, but at the same time, laws have to change. I believe that one of those laws should mean to protect yourself if you believe.... It's a grey area, but definitely you should be able to protect yourself, to bear arms, especially when you have children. You're not thinking about yourself. You're thinking about your children's safety at that moment.
Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
Obviously, I can't support what you are arguing in that proposal, since I am afraid of the escalation it could lead to.
That aside, do you have any other proposals for legislative changes that you think it is important to make, particularly with regard to the powers of indigenous police services?
Mayor, Northern Village of La Loche, As an Individual
I believe it's not just indigenous policing, but it's policing in general. I'm hearing, and the members in the communities I represent are hearing, that laws have to change here, in Parliament. These repeat offenders need to have more severe or more harsh punishments. The crimes are being committed by a select few who are causing problems in our communities.
It's not just that, but there's also a large amount of meth. As mentioned earlier, it has become pretty cheap, and crime is going through the roof. People are breaking into homes even in daylight. I follow the news, and that's happening right across the country.
It's not just indigenous policing. If it does change, it needs to be the RCMP, and it needs to be a standard law.
Bloc
Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
You alluded to a lax approach to enforcing the law.
How can we make sure the law is enforced fairly?
In many cases, what seems to prevent police from enforcing the law against first nations individuals is the fear of doing something racist. It can also be the opposite: when indigenous police enforce the law against non-indigenous persons.
Can you tell us about this?
To what extent does the law have to be enforced in situations like this, particularly where organized crime is involved?
Mayor, Northern Village of La Loche, As an Individual
I believe one of the simple solutions would be, as I mentioned, that the law could be changed. It's about inadequate policing. It's fundamental, right? As I said, my community is supposed to have 19 officers, and we are catering much more to outside communities. Criminals do see that. If you commit a break and enter, police are not going to show up, because there's simply a lack of policing. I speak about this in the 35 communities I represent in the north. About 130 officers are needed, just in the northern sector alone.
I'm coming here to address my community's concerns and those of the communities I represent, as the crime rate has gone through the roof. I'm addressing this to speak on behalf of all 35 communities that I represent, and not just the 35, but basically, us, the municipality and the communities, and the neighbouring communities of reserves as well.
Inadequate policing is primarily the issue. At the same time, I spoke about harsher punishments for repeat offenders, and that needs to go hand in hand. You might increase policing, but if these criminals keep getting away, what is the point of increasing policing as well?
Liberal
Conservative
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes, ON
Thank you very much.
Mayor, I'll pick up where you left off when you were talking about these repeat offenders who continue to terrorize people. Of course, when you have an increase in crime, you have an increase in victims as well, and that's who you're advocating for as well. It's those victims who are continually being harassed or criminalized in your communities.
You mentioned inadequate policing. Yes, I think that's a perfect point. You said it just at the tail end of your comment. I was hoping that you could expand on it a little.
When the crime rate goes up, that's a problem too. We're getting more calls for service.
You have a combined issue with a lack of police officers at the moment, but the two.... We didn't get here by accident. There have been pieces of legislation passed federally that have led us to this exact point we're at now, where repeat offenders continue to get out over and over again.
