Evidence of meeting #6 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was program.
A video is available from Parliament.
Bloc
Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
Does the Pikogan community help the Val-d'Or police? How does it work on the ground?
At the same time, I'd like to know if you ever help indigenous people in distress in urban areas, such as Amos or Val-d'Or.
Director, Service de police de Pikogan
Yes, I have. You know, when you speak a person's language, you become a reference point for them. It's easier to speak in Anishinabe with a homelessness worker who speaks that language. That builds a relationship of trust.
Bloc
Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
Is the collaboration with white police officers going well? Can you tell me about your experience with other police officers? How does that improve practices or the knowledge of first nations realities on the ground?
Director, Service de police de Pikogan
Non-indigenous police officers work directly with us. Several have left and are now with the Sûreté du Québec. They have an easier time dealing with first nations.
I think it's a good mix and a good exchange.
Bloc
Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
Thank you very much.
I want to take the last few seconds to congratulate you again and to thank you for your commitment. Chi-meegwetch.
Liberal
October 22nd, 2025 / 5:15 p.m.
Liberal
Philip Earle Liberal Labrador, NL
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you for appearing here today, and thank you for your public service.
We've heard much about the importance of police service in indigenous communities being deemed essential. I've heard you both talk about insufficient funds. My question is along the lines of the insufficient funds, acknowledging that you are the chief and the director.
When you measure insufficient funding, where do those shortcomings appear? Are they boots on the ground from the community? Are they in bricks and mortar or lack of equipment?
Talk to us in a little more detail about that, please.
Chief of Police, Blood Tribe Police Service
For us, it is everything. We're talking about recruiting, manpower and resources. It's very hard, and I'm going to go back to a remark that I read which Chief Jerel Swamp made recently. How can we approach a young person within the community to join the police service when we can't offer him a proper pension, benefits and everything else associated with that side of the job? We can't offer them that.
They're interested in policing, so they look at Lethbridge or Calgary. They're offered all this there, so where do you think that young person is going to go? They're not going to come and work for the Blood Tribe Police Service. They're going to go to a municipal service that offers all these other benefits that I cannot. That right there is the beginning of the effect on resources. We can't find proper staffing.
I'm running with 37 people right now, and this is the highest number we've had for resource manpower-wise. If we want to get into the first nations policing program terms and conditions, some of them have been lifted, so now we're able to create specialized units that non-first nations services take for granted, such as canine and general investigation services. It's a whole combination of everything.
I don't want to take up too much time. I'll give my counterpart an opportunity to speak.
Director, Service de police de Pikogan
As I said, stable funding is the key to everything. The important thing is also to be recognized as an essential service. As I explained, in our case, we need equipment in all spheres. Stable funding, pensions and training are all important.
Of course, I can plan for recruitment, but I can't always guarantee training and equipment replacement on time, because of funding. That's always a challenge.
For example, if an agreement were to end tomorrow morning, what would I be able to tell my staff? I once had to swear someone in as a special constable because the agreement had not yet been signed.
The important things are stable funding and being recognized as an essential service.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Terry Sheehan
Thank you very much.
Now we'll go to Bob for five minutes, please.
Go ahead, Mr. Zimmer.
Conservative
Bob Zimmer Conservative Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to both of you for coming today.
This is our study on first nations and Inuit policing, as you know.
For Chief Grant Buckskin, there was an article on October 27, 2022 entitled, “Police chiefs urge Ottawa not to rely on forces to oversee gun buyback program”. The article states:
The Liberals plan a mandatory buyback program to offer compensation to affected owners and businesses.
Regina Police Chief Evan Bray, appearing at a House of Commons committee on behalf of the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police, says the buyback will be an administrative process involving a massive amount of work.
Bray told MPs that police are already overstretched and lack the resources to administer the buyback program.
Chief, countless fellow police chiefs are pushing back against the Liberal firearm confiscation plan. We're studying lack of accessibility, and you even mentioned in your statement about it being hard to recruit officers and hang onto them. Regarding those limited recruits and officers you have, do you think it's a good use of already understaffed first nation and Inuit police officers to go after law-abiding first nations and Inuit firearms owners?
Chief of Police, Blood Tribe Police Service
Absolutely not. That would be a complete waste of resources. We're stretched thin already, and I am not going to put the community at risk by removing resources from our front line to oversee something like that. No, it would be a complete waste of resources.
Conservative
Bob Zimmer Conservative Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC
Thanks, Chief.
My second question is for Director Annick Wylde.
I'll refer to the Auditor General's report on what we're studying today. On page 15, section 3.54, the report states:
We found that over the past 5 years, the RCMP had not fully staffed the community tripartite agreement positions that it received funding for from the program. This means that some communities with community tripartite agreements were not being served by the agreed-on number of officers to enhance the policing services provided through provincial or territorial police service agreements.
Again, it goes to what I asked the chief previously, yet the Liberal government still wants to use those finite police resources, limited police resources, to target law-abiding firearms owners.
Director Wylde, with countless fellow police chiefs pushing back against the Liberal firearm confiscation and ban, do you support assigning already overworked first nations and Inuit police officers to go after law-abiding first nations and Inuit firearms owners when they are not the problem?
Director, Service de police de Pikogan
I'm sorry, but I didn't quite understand the question. It would have to be interpreted into French for me to understand it.
Conservative
Bob Zimmer Conservative Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC
Was it not translated? Is translation on, Chair? I'm at three and a half minutes, and I just....
Liberal
Conservative
Bob Zimmer Conservative Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC
The witness didn't hear the question.
Bloc
Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
I wasn't paying attention, but, no, the interpretation wasn't working.
It's working now, but the interpretation wasn't working while he was asking his question.
I'm sorry, but I was—
Conservative
Bob Zimmer Conservative Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC
Should I repeat that question? I'm at three minutes—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Terry Sheehan
Repeat that question, and if we can't hear it, then yes, you'll still have your time.
Conservative
Bob Zimmer Conservative Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC
There's no problem. I don't blame you.
My second question is for you.
I'm quoting from the Auditor General's report, section 3.54, on the first nations and Inuit policing program:
We found that over the past 5 years, the RCMP had not fully staffed the community tripartite agreement positions that it received funding for from the program. This means that some communities with community tripartite agreements were not being served by the agreed-on number of officers to enhance the policing services provided through provincial or territorial police service agreements.
I'll even go on to 3.55:
In the last 3 years, as program funding for officers had increased, the RCMP had not been able to fill these additional positions, leading to a greater difference between the number of officer positions funded and the number filled.
We heard from the other chief, and I'm sure it's the same for you. It's difficult to recruit officers in your police force.
With that understanding, and with countless other police chiefs pushing back against the Liberal firearms confiscation and ban, do you support assigning already understaffed first nations and Inuit police officers to go after law-abiding first nations and Inuit firearms owners when they clearly are not the problem?
Director, Service de police de Pikogan
I know that the RCMP respects the number of officers agreed to in the tripartite agreement, as do I.
However, I didn't understand the end of the last question because of the interpretation. I'm sorry.