Evidence of meeting #6 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was program.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Bob Zimmer Conservative Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC
I can repeat it.
I'll maybe talk a little bit slower for the interpreters to keep up.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Terry Sheehan
We're running out of time.
I'm just suggesting this, but if you need more time, you may want to put it in writing.
Conservative
Conservative
Bob Zimmer Conservative Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC
We've had two cracks at it. I'll just go slower.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Terry Sheehan
You can ask the question, but I think we're going to have to get a response in writing, unless it's a very brief answer.
Conservative
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes, ON
I think it was more of a technical issue, not that he ran out of time.
Liberal
Conservative
Bob Zimmer Conservative Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC
Director Annick Wylde, if this works, I can go a little slower.
With countless fellow police chiefs pushing back against the firearm confiscation ban, do you support assigning already understaffed first nations and Inuit police officers to go after law-abiding first nations and Inuit firearms owners when they aren't the problem?
Basically, what I'm asking is why police officers would take up valuable time to go after law-abiding firearms owners instead of criminals.
Director, Service de police de Pikogan
I think it's a safety issue. This is important. The police need to be able to exert some pressure around that. It's a safety issue for the officers on the ground, and it's important.
Liberal
Liberal
Jaime Battiste Liberal Cape Breton—Canso—Antigonish, NS
Mr. Chair, in order to have a really good understanding of issues, we're going to be inviting a lot of witnesses here, and every one of them is probably going to have a different policing service and a different situation. There have been some conversations between the Conservatives, the Bloc and me.
It would be great if we could get our witnesses to give us some more information so that we can ask really good questions. Perhaps the clerk could get a little bit of baseline information about the witnesses, especially around when their policing was established, how many communities they service, how large of an area, and how many of their police officers are indigenous.
Basically it's just gathering that information so that we have an understanding of each community's unique policing service to help us ask the appropriate questions.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Terry Sheehan
That's fair. We'll see that it happens.
That brings us to the end.
I want to thank our witnesses very much.
We have a hand up.
Chief, you can provide the information that Jaime has asked for in writing.
Go ahead, Chief Grant.
Chief of Police, Blood Tribe Police Service
In response to the last question about the information that was required, if you visit our website at bloodtribepolice.com, we upload all our annual reports. That has the bulk of what the question asked for regarding land-based population calls for service. It's all there.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Terry Sheehan
Thank you very much.
The clerk will work with you and future witnesses to bring that information forward. I really appreciate that very much.
Thank you very much.
Chi-meegwetch.
I'm going to suspend while we get ready for our next witnesses.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Terry Sheehan
Welcome back as we go to the second round.
Today we have, from House of Wolf and Associates Inc., Georgina Nagano, founder and chief executive officer, and Una Gair, chief operations officer.
By video conference we have Cheryl Gervais, chief of police, Treaty Three Police Service.
I will start with the House of Wolf and Associates Inc., for five minutes, please.
Georgina Nagano Founder and Chief Executive Officer, House of Wolf and Associates Inc.
Good evening, Mr. Chair and members of the committee.
Thank you for inviting us to present before the House of Commons Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs to provide testimony as a witness for your study on indigenous policing and public safety.
As I begin, I'd like to acknowledge the traditional territory of the Anishinabe Algonquin Nation that I am presenting on.
My name is Gina Nagano, Tr’ondëk Hwëch’in from the Wolf Clan. I was born in Dawson City, Yukon; however, I made my home in Whitehorse.
In 1985, I joined the Royal Canadian Mounted Police when I was 19 years old and served 21 years, policing in many northern indigenous communities in Canada. In 2006, I retired as a sergeant here in Ottawa as my last posting in national aboriginal policing. After my short retirement from the RCMP, I worked for the Department of Justice for seven years and then worked for Correctional Service Canada for one year.
I founded House of Wolf and Associates, an indigenous-owned community safety firm based in the Yukon. We work with nations across the north and western Canada to rebuild safety on our own terms.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Terry Sheehan
Excuse me, Georgina. Could you slow down a little bit for the interpretation, just so they can keep up.
Thank you.
Founder and Chief Executive Officer, House of Wolf and Associates Inc.
Okay. I'm trying to get through my five minutes.
I'd like to introduce Una Gair, my chief operations officer and a long-time ally of this work we do with nations.
The first nations and Inuit policing policy was designed to fund dedicated, culturally responsive policing work. It does not. If it did, I wouldn't be here. Millions of dollars remain unspent and 61 funded positions were never filled.
I want to highlight what the Auditor General's official said during the committee meeting on October 8. The same recommendations that were made and accepted by Public Safety Canada and the RCMP in 2014 were not acted on, by their most recent review in 2024. Over 10 years, it was the same findings. It's a policy still from 1996, and there are still no metrics and no accountability.
What we have in place is a revolving door and performative, self-congratulatory reporting by the RCMP in community tripartite agreements based on questionable data analysis. Meanwhile, communities are still waiting for the safety they were promised.
MP Bob Zimmer, to your astute point, during the October 8 committee meeting on this study, the RCMP can't convince enough people to work for them, let alone to move to remote communities where they have no roots. As a former recruiting officer for the RCMP, please don't get me started on the barriers to indigenous recruitment.
In reality, the FNIPP dollars meant for indigenous safety get reallocated to overtime and operational costs, to flying members in and out on rotation to cover leave, or to filling desperately needed detachment positions in general policing. It's happening everywhere. The result is no continuity, no relationships and no trust. Communities sign for dedicated officers, but what they get is a revolving door and another broken promise.
Please let me be clear. This is not a failure of the hard-working and good members providing policing services. It's structural. It is deeply reminiscent of the collective history between indigenous people and Canada's policing services.
Nations are doing what nations do best: They started working around these systems. They built to meet their own needs, just like they've done since time immemorial.
I'm sure MP Hanley, who has been an advocate for this work in the north, and former chief Doris Bill of the Kwanlin Dün First Nation, who has testified before this committee, have already told you about Kwanlin Dün's trained community safety officers who patrol daily, check on elders, keep tabs on vulnerable people and defuse conflict before it becomes a crisis. In Teslin, two elder women, the “deadly aunties”, make sure everyone gets home safely, keep eyes on the community and support families in conflict.
Selkirk, Carcross/Tagish, Na-Cho Nyäk Dun, Taku River Tlingit and Daylu Dena first nations have all built versions of community-led safety teams. Other nations are developing theirs now. They're unarmed, prevention first, high trust, accountable to their governments and people, and they cost a fraction of what reactive policing costs.
These are not pilots; they work. Early data backs that up. In Kwanlin Dün, emergency calls dropped sharply once the community safety officers began regular patrols, from dozens each month to only a handful. Citizens report feeling safer and more willing to reach out to community safety officers earlier before a situation turns into a crisis. We've seen the same pattern in Teslin and Selkirk. There have been fewer police calls, fewer violent incidents, an increased quality of actionable data on serious criminal matters for the RCMP and far more community trust.
This is what the Auditor General described as missing in the federal program. It's real engagement, real outcomes and funding that actually reaches the people it's meant to serve.
To quote you, MP Billy Morin, as you reminded this committee, give it “back to the communities. That's where the solutions lie.” You're right. Nations have already shown what works.
Our recommendations are straightforward and they come directly from the communities we've served. These are the same ones outlined in our white paper.
First, recognize indigenous-led safety programs as essential services in law alongside policing, but not beneath it.
Second, fund directly with multi-year, needs-based agreements.
Third, respect data sovereignty. Nations must have access to their own safety and wellness data, including disaggregated universal crime reporting, to track what's working and hold systems accountable.
Four, support capacity. Don't control it. Invest in indigenous-led training, mentorship and evaluation so that nations can keep leading.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Terry Sheehan
Georgina, I'm going to get you to stop there because we're a little bit over, but the rest of your testimony will come out during questions, I would imagine.
We'll now go to Cheryl Gervais for five minutes, please.
Cheryl Gervais Chief of Police, Treaty Three Police Service
Bonjour. Good evening.
Honourable members of the committee, thank you for the invitation to speak today. It's an honour to join the study on indigenous policing and public safety in my capacity as chief of police for Treaty Three Police Service.
My perspective is shaped by lived experience. I am a first nation woman from Iskatewizaagegan No. 39 First Nation, the daughter of residential and day school survivors, a mother, a community member and a long-standing member of Treaty Three Police Service. I've stepped into every role with the purpose of serving as a role model for our youth and amplifying the voices of those we serve, both within my organization and in the communities we serve. Our officers work every day to uphold public safety while building trust and cultural connection, yet our communities continue to face significant inequities directly tied to chronic underfunding and outdated program structures.
When we talk about systemic racism in the justice system, we must begin by naming it. It is not only present in institutions but in the frameworks that guide them. Indigenous police services have operated for decades under a model that was never designed for our realities. Even today in our funding negotiations we've been asked to conform to systems that fail to reflect our unique needs. This is systemic racism in practice, when structures that are built without us are still imposed on us.
The 2024 Auditor General's report and numerous reviews have echoed what we've long known, that funding remains inequitable, partnerships with communities are lacking and programs have failed to evolve in step with indigenous self-determination. These challenges extend beyond policing. Every day our officers respond to issues rooted in the same systemic underfunding—housing, health care, infrastructure and education. Public safety cannot be separated from these broader conditions. When indigenous policing is underfunded, entire communities feel the impact.
Still, our service remains proactive. We've implemented innovative programs, advanced mental health priorities through the Indigenous Police Chiefs of Ontario and introduced body-worn cameras, but this progress is still built on one-time funding, without sustained investment in training, staffing or infrastructure. No other police service in Canada is asked to compromise so consistently on safety, wellness and sustainability.
On the barriers to indigenous recruitment, we must acknowledge our history. Treaty Three Police Service was formed to reclaim our relationship with policing, yet 20 years later, we continue to struggle to meet the needs of our communities. I saw that first-hand when we lost Wabaseemoong due to those very gaps. However, there are bright spots. Our community cadet program and our 22 for You campaign engage youth in each of our communities, helping them to see policing not as an outside force but as a service rooted in their own values and identities.
This study asks how governments can work collaboratively with indigenous nations to advance safety. The answer begins with indigenous leadership. We must ask who is missing from the table. The principle of “nothing for us without us”, championed by the families of MMIWG, must guide this work.
At Treaty Three Police Service, we've lived this through our community-informed operational review with PwC, PricewaterhouseCoopers, defining what safety truly means from the community's perspective. Those closest to the community are best positioned to define safety and how to achieve it. Canada must work in true partnership with first nations, grounded in respect for jurisdiction, self-determination and the right to equitable public safety.
In closing, indigenous police services are essential. They deserve the same recognition, resources and respect as any other service in our country.
Meegwetch. I look forward to your questions.
Conservative
Eric Melillo Conservative Kenora—Kiiwetinoong, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Chief Gervais, for being here virtually. It's good to see you again.
We've spoken in the past about some of the prescriptive restrictions put on funding that Treaty Three Police and other first nations police services receive. I'm wondering if you can speak more to that. How do those restrictions, the sort of framework that the government provides, actually impact your ability to do your job in the way you want to and as effectively as you want to, when those funds are coming already predetermined with regard to where they're going?
Chief of Police, Treaty Three Police Service
To that, I will say that, certainly, growing up within the organization.... I started with the service in 2003 and grew up in the organization with the goal of retiring in the corner office as chief of police. Throughout my career as an officer, I certainly saw the beauty of indigenous policing, and as I've grown up in the organization—and more so within my role as chief of police, sitting at the funding table now, pulling up my chair at a certain table within my role as chief of police—I've also seen the challenges and disparities within indigenous policing.
Your question certainly raises that when it comes to the framework, the FNIPP, the model that we work under. We are very much used to doing more with less, which again brings strength and partnerships in our community. However, it also brings challenges when it comes to the mental health of my staff because of the geography we cover, the types of calls for service that we respond to and the lack of supports and even resources in community when we're trying to support our communities.
Again, in our funding negotiations, the expectation for us to use models or systems that are not built for us, that don't take the cultural responsiveness piece into consideration, the expectations that our communities have for Treaty Three Police to provide effective service and equitable service to them in terms of public safety and their feeling safe in our communities.... We are failing. It's been over 20 years of saying, “I'm sorry. We're short. We're trying.” I'm tired of saying it. They're tired of hearing it. Now you see these efforts with Treaty Three Police Service in collaboration with the UCCM Anishnaabe Police Service and the Anishinabek Police Service to stand united and together pushing back on those frameworks, such as the FNIPP, and having that unified voice amongst police leaders in advocating for change.
I think the previous guest spoke to the lack of specialty units under the program, which has now been lifted, which is great. It's a step in the right direction. However, I still struggle with the recruitment. How am I supposed to fill those positions?
Conservative
Eric Melillo Conservative Kenora—Kiiwetinoong, ON
Thank you very much for that very wholesome response. I really appreciate that.
As you mentioned, you and all the Treaty Three Police are doing incredible work with very limited resources, so I appreciate all that you do to keep people across our territory safe.
Obviously, we've seen right across Canada, in municipalities, first nations and everywhere in between, a crime wave over the last few years. Bail reform has led to a lot of violent repeat offenders being released. There's been an uptick in gang activity, drugs and the smuggling of illegal items, all things that have been happening right across Canada. Certainly, northwestern Ontario, Treaty 3 territory, is no different.
I'm curious as to whether you can speak to that challenge and how that's playing out across Treaty 3 communities. You mentioned the specialized units and the retention and, obviously, addressing these issues. Specialized units are often necessary, whether it's for gangs, drugs or human trafficking.
I know I've packed a lot into that, but I'm wondering if you could speak to the need for specialized units and that retention piece.