Evidence of meeting #20 for Industry and Technology in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was read.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
There's an international report, so we can send you the report. I think it's an organization that lists the measures taken by various G7 and Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development countries in this area. We'd be happy to provide you with that.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ben Carr
Thank you, Minister.
I'd like to remind your team that this has to be sent to the clerk, who will distribute the information to all committee members. Thank you for your co-operation.
Thank you, Mr. Ste‑Marie.
Mr. Seeback, the floor is yours for five minutes.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to go the SIF agreement number 813-816251 and go back to the jobs guarantee.
You said that this is the floor, the 4,475 full-time equivalents. I asked you if you knew how many full-time equivalents Stellantis had at the time you signed the contract. You didn't answer, so I told you it was 8,000. This agreement allows, as the floor, that Stellantis could maintain 55% of its workforce. That's 4,475 out of 8,000. I was a lawyer, so I'm not great math. I used a calculator to do that.
This is a very simple and straightforward question. Minister, I hope you'll give a simple and straightforward answer. This agreement allowed Stellantis to reduce its workforce by 45% and still be in compliance with the agreement because they had 8,000 FTEs at the time. Did you discuss this floor, as you described it, with the auto workers in Unifor before you agreed to this, yes or no?
Liberal
François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
It's a complex question, so I'll try to simplify it for folks who are watching at home.
This is a floor. It's an average over 12 years. That's how you have to understand that. I know you may not agree with me, but if you seek legal counsel, they would say that you cannot read this clause alone. You have to refer to the other clause because I know you're talking about Brampton. I was there to defend the Brampton folks. I can even tell you how the discussion went, step by step. That's why we insisted, in the same paragraph you referred to, in section 6.3.4(d).... Let me read it for folks at home. It says that the recipient shall maintain production of the Brampton assembly plant during the term or until December 31, 2035.
I'm just saying when you read the—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ben Carr
Colleagues, I'm going to press pause. I'm going to give him 10 seconds to finish, Mr. Seeback. I'm not taking that away from your time. It's just to let him finish.
Then I'm going to you, Mr. Seeback. The clock is stopped. Then we'll provide you the opportunity to follow up.
Minister, you have 10 seconds to finish your thought.
Liberal
François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
I'll do that in 10 seconds.
You have this clause and you have to read the other SIF agreement with NextStar, because these two agreements go hand in hand. You have to read this clause and read the other section plus read the other SIF agreement together.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
I'm aware of all that.
Minister, for goodness' sake, that wasn't my question. I asked you if you talked about what you call the floor with Unifor before you signed this contract. Were they aware that the floor could result in 45% of their workforce being let go before you signed the contract? It's a simple question, please.
Liberal
François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
I don't agree with how you characterized it. I'm saying to you that it's an average over 12 years. That's why you have to look at this clause plus the other SIF agreement if you don't want to mislead Canadians. Canadians at home are not—
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
I will not sit here and be accused of misleading Canadians, sir. You won't answer a simple question. That's misleading Canadians. Did you discuss this clause with Unifor before you signed the agreement, yes or no?
Liberal
François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
Sir, you were not there. That's the problem. You're asking questions, but you don't know what you're asking. What I'm telling you is that when we did this agreement, you have to read the NextStar agreement and you have to read the clause together. Seek legal opinion.
Liberal
François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
But I'm telling you: Seek legal opinion.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
That's not my question. Did you discuss it with Unifor, yes or no?
Liberal
François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
We had discussions with a number of stakeholders when we were negotiating. That negotiation—
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
That's fine. Do you know what? I'll just take this clause and ask Lana Payne if you talked to her about it before you signed it.
Liberal
François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
I probably talk to Lana Payne more often than you, sir, with respect.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
We'll see.
I'm going to split my time with Mr. Guglielmin.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ben Carr
Just for the record, Mr. Guglielmin, before you you take the floor, you have one minute and 35 seconds remaining in the allocated time. I'll start it now.
Conservative
Michael Guglielmin Conservative Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON
Minister, in the SIF agreement amendment number one, subsection three, paragraph four, you're clearly already talking about the possible closure of the Brampton plant for Stellantis. Did you know that jobs would be at risk or that there were going to be layoffs or plant closures before you signed the contract?
Liberal
François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
Sir, when we negotiated that contract, it was to make sure we had protection for the employees. Again, I'm trying to help your colleagues understand that this was not negotiated alone. This was negotiated with the NextStar agreement, because that's why they—
Conservative
Michael Guglielmin Conservative Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON
Respectfully, Minister, the question was on whether you knew that there was already the intention to have layoffs at the plant, because you clearly considered it in an amendment.
Liberal
François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
Sir, there was no intention. That's what I'm trying to explain to you. When you're part of negotiating these contracts, you have an average over a decade. You have the floor—
Conservative
Michael Guglielmin Conservative Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON
Minister, did you let Unifor know that their jobs were going to be at risk when you signed this contract?