Industry and Technology Committee on April 20th, 2026

[Karim Bardeesy, Liberal, Taiaiako'n—Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Mr. Azzopardi, I'll ask you the same question: How much of your sales are in Canada, in the U.S. and abroad?

[Jonathon Azzopardi]

By region, we could make a valid argument to say that over 90%, either directly or indirectly, will land in the United States. What I mean by that is that even if I'm shipping product to Mexico or I'm shipping it in Canada, it will likely have a final destination of the United States, so we could easily say 90%. For sales by volume, I'd say that probably 80% is U.S. The other 20% is Canadian.

[Karim Bardeesy, Liberal, Taiaiako'n—Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Mr. Azzopardi, what are your American customers saying about what happened and the kinds of decisions they're now faced with?

[Jonathon Azzopardi]

It's a complicated question, MP Bardeesy.

I've taken it upon myself to call every one of my clients, every month since the tariffs started, to make sure that we're staying in contact, not only to discuss what's being said on that side of the border but also to understand what's really being said behind closed doors. Our clients want to do business with Canada. It's been increasingly difficult to do business in this uncertain environment. The uncertainty is as bad as the tariffs. Now, the uncertainty has been backed up by tariffs that make it unfeasible to do business with Canada.

We see that even the CEOs and presidents of these corporations in the United States are drinking the Kool-Aid, while admitting that the Kool-Aid is poison, if that makes sense. They have no choice.

They're actually doing something far worse. They're not even putting that work in the United States. That work is not going to Canada, and it's not going to the United States. I've given six reasons for that, and you can see those in my brief. Most of it is going to Mexico. Once it's sourced in Mexico, it's not coming back to the United States and it's not coming back to Canada.

[Karim Bardeesy, Liberal, Taiaiako'n—Parkdale—High Park, ON]

You mentioned 130 employees or team members. What are you saying to them in this moment, and what are they saying to you?

[Jonathon Azzopardi]

We've been through this before, but not to this magnitude. We are going to continue to diversify our customer base and find ways to mitigate this as much as we can, but we can only do so much.

We have proposals and mitigation tactics that will buy us between three and six months. However, if this remains unchanged, in the next 12 months, we will be staring at a bill of about $5 million in tariffs going to the United States. We only make about $2.5 million, so we will have to take some type of action between now and 12 months from now.

[Karim Bardeesy, Liberal, Taiaiako'n—Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Ms. Liard, I'll come back to you briefly.

Over the last 12 months, there have been support measures to help deal with tariffs. Apart from an agreement on the tariffs themselves, what kind of support are you looking for from the government?

[Isabelle Liard]

For now, I'd certainly like some support to keep my employees. That's what's most concerning, because I don't want to lose them. These are highly skilled workers. If the work decreases, by the time we reorganize, find solutions or Canada negotiates with the United States, workers may leave. We can settle everything, but if I lose my employees, I won't be able to keep going. We must keep our employees. That's my priority.

In the last six months, the work has diminished somewhat because of tariffs. Although they weren't high, there was still uncertainty in the U.S., which meant there was less investment in U.S. businesses. I've managed to keep all my staff since the beginning of the crisis last summer. We often make them work on plant improvements or things like that. In concrete terms, since last summer, almost half of my employees haven't been working on products that I am going to sell. We're relying on our cash flow right now, but that won't be sustainable in the long term.

[Karim Bardeesy, Liberal, Taiaiako'n—Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Azzopardi and Ms. Vlanich, I would ask you the same question. What kinds of supports, in addition to the resolution of the trade issue itself, are you looking for from both the company and the sectoral perspective?

[Jonathon Azzopardi]

Besides what my colleague already said, I'm going to take it from a different and higher level. I'm going to answer on behalf of my industry. We understand that our role is going to be one of a sacrificial lamb, a meat shield, for this government and this country in the short term and long term, but you need to grant us the grace and the respect to tell us what the plan is. Is this a two- to three-month plan? Is this a six-month plan? Is this a one-year plan? My answer would be different for each one of those scenarios.

You have to admit and come up with the reality that what you're asking of us is to stand at the front line of a trade war with the United States. We are the front line. As we prepare for this, we are preparing for the risk to our businesses. We are playing and gambling with the futures of our employees, and we don't really know how long this is going to go.

You asked me for an answer on what supports. I'm asking you to tell us what the plan is. You're asking us to toe the line right now, but we really don't know how long it's going to be. If you tell me it's July, we'll probably be okay. If you tell me it's going to go much longer than that, then we need to come up with some serious measures to be able to support these companies. Right now Canada and the United States, for all the reasons I've put down, are the two ugly sisters. What's leaving is never coming back.

How long do you want us to hold the line?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

We're over time, Ms. Vlanich, but I'll afford you 30 seconds to respond to that question, if you'd like.

[Nicole Vlanich]

Okay.

I'll just quickly say that in reality, beyond the CUSMA agreement, a fair trade agreement between Canada and the U.S. and the ability to return to doing business as usual, there's no long-term strategy beyond that. With regard to the short term, I would say the same thing: It depends on how much time we're looking at here. If we're looking at a couple of months or if we're looking beyond that, then what we're asking for will be a little bit different.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

Thank you, Mr. Bardeesy.

Mr. Ste‑Marie, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette—Manawan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, colleagues.

Thank you, witnesses, for joining us to discuss this issue, which still doesn't seem to be given enough consideration by the government. Let's hope this study helps the government understand the seriousness of the situation and the importance of taking action.

Ms. Liard, thank you for your opening remarks. To summarize, your company has been around for several decades. It's a family-owned SME in the field of metallurgy. Exports to the U.S. represent 70% of your sales. I remember when President Trump announced the imposition of tariffs a year ago, you had a lot of concerns and you weren't the only ones. There are a number of SMEs in the field of metallurgy in your region, and also throughout Quebec and Ontario.

Based on what you've told us, most of the products you exported were not subject to the tariffs, but now, a much longer list of products has been added as an annex to the new order. As a result, all the products you export are subject to tariffs, and the new way of calculating them is no longer based on the steel or aluminum component of the product, but rather on the overall final value of the product. Is that correct?

[Isabelle Liard]

Yes, that's correct.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette—Manawan, QC]

I think it's really important for my colleagues to understand that. Even though they were steel and aluminum products, they weren't subject to the tariffs until the order issued in early April. You said the old tariffs for your company were around 5%.

[Isabelle Liard]

Yes, that's exactly it. The tariffs were about 5% because the previous list focused a lot on structural steel, so all the mechanical equipment and machined parts. We supply a lot of parts machined only as replacement parts to the U.S. Those were not affected by tariffs at all. My understanding is all parts containing steel will now be subject to a 25% tariff. Now, every week, every piece I export will cost 25% more.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette—Manawan, QC]

What you're saying is if nothing's done, your company won't be able to sustain that. If the situation created by the new order doesn't change, your business will no longer be viable.

[Isabelle Liard]

That's correct, and that's what worries us the most. We don't know yet how U.S. businesses are going to react. We haven't received any feedback from our American customers on that yet. I don't even think they themselves understand what's going on. That's why there's always a disconnect between what's said and what's done.

We've had close relationships with some of our American customers for over 20 years or 40 years. However, when loyalty means it'll cost you 25% more, customers are a little less loyal, especially when it comes to machining. They're able to do that in the U.S.

All that to say, yes, I think it puts businesses like mine at risk. In fact, in Quebec, there are thousands of businesses like mine. I have a lot of processing and steel subcontractors that are also going to be indirectly at risk, because they supply exporting companies.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette—Manawan, QC]

Yes, it's very concerning. The fact that your business, a family-owned small business that has been in operation for several decades, is being hit hard by this new order is representative of what's going on.

You told me about an article in Les Affaires that was based on a study which said that, in Ontario and Quebec, more products exported to the U.S. that contain steel or aluminum could be subject to these tariffs.

There are SMEs like yours across Quebec that have customers in the United States, who export and who, overnight, find themselves hit by these new tariffs. It's really concerning.

[Isabelle Liard]

That's a real concern, yes.

You know, 15 years or 20 years ago, we were growing our U.S. market. That was always the goal. We had to export. As time went on, we exported more of our products.

Now we have to deal with a shift in sales that is no longer sustainable. We have to turn around and try to find Canadian customers, but they're already in high demand.

Often, my Canadian customers export to the U.S. They too will be affected by this. It's my subcontractors, my clients and companies like mine that are affected. That's a lot of businesses and a lot of jobs.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette—Manawan, QC]

Thank you very much. That's very concerning. Your presentation is very clear.

The order states that, if only American steel is used, the tariff will be 10%, not 25%. You said that's impossible for you, because the U.S. doesn't produce all types of steel. Also, American steel is much more expensive. Finally, we also have a steel production industry here that must continue to operate.

[Isabelle Liard]

We have a great steel production industry. Canadian steel is an affordable, quality steel. Eighty per cent of the steel I use in my products is Canadian. If I ask my suppliers to no longer supply me with Canadian steel, but with American steel, they'll tell me they don't have any or that it's difficult to get.

The U.S. isn't a big steel producer; it's not as big as we are. They keep the steel for themselves because they have to pay to import it. Obviously, they export less.

It's difficult for us. There's no way I can have American steel in my Canadian products. That's not going to be possible.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette—Manawan, QC]

Yes, it's very clear. Thank you very much.

The fact that there's —

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

Mr. Ste‑Marie, unfortunately—