Industry Committee on Nov. 22nd, 2006

[Dan McTeague, Liberal, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

I will be very brief. I want to make sure my other colleagues, all of them, have a chance to ask a question.

Perhaps I could come back to you, Ms. Courtin and Mr. Michaud. You mentioned people having to take off a year to make money in order to go to school.

The House of Commons, a week and a half ago, passed my private member's bill to second reading in the committee that would make RESPs tax deductible. That would catch a large number of people. Frighteningly, no media has talked about this, but I know this will have a fairly important impact on what you are seeking. It's not a perfect solution, but it falls hand in glove with what Mr. Hattin was saying, that we have to be innovative and we have to move as quickly as we can.

How difficult is it, in your mind, for young students, notwithstanding the work you're doing at the high school level, to get access to higher education right now in this province, with the tuition fees coming off the freeze?

[Jan Courtin]

I think that would make a big improvement. I think it would be more accessible and would be very helpful. In terms of the percentage of my student body that would fit into that category, I would say maybe 25% of my students right now can't afford to go.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you, Mr. McTeague.

I'll go to Mr. Van Kesteren.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

Thank you all for coming here. I have questions for all three, so you'll have to give me a quick answer.

Mr. Church, when did you start moving operations to the United States?

[Art Church]

That's not what I said. Eight years ago we were at $50 million; today we're at $250 million. We've actually grown in Canada; we've added a plant here in Canada, but we have not grown the way...all of our growth is mostly in the U.S. This is not an anti-Canadian situation.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

I need to know, because this is what we've been hearing. Would you agree that lower taxes and fewer regulations would encourage businesses to stay in Canada?

[Art Church]

My manufacturing friends are going to kill me. I don't know; people have been saying that for years and years. There's a more fundamental problem: we have to be more competitive.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

That's a move in the right direction.

[Art Church]

Yes, I'll take it.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

Is it safe to say the current government's recent decision on income trusts really didn't result in any clear decision to move to the United States?

[Art Church]

No. I didn't say we were moving to the United States. What I'm saying is that we have an environment in Canada that's an unpredictable world for business.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

But that particular didn't have any bearing on what's happening in your business with the United States.

[Art Church]

No, but I'll tell you one thing. I own this business--you're looking at the owner and the CEO--and we are based in Canada. The head office is here; the profits from my U.S. operations come back here and also get taxed. I have to think about what to do.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

I have a few more questions.

Point number two is this. Mr. Hattin, I like what you're saying. We talked about that this morning. The roads in this country are deplorable. We have to do something.

[Robert Hattin]

It took me two hours to get here from Hamilton--40 kilometres. In my day, I could have run it if I were a long-distance runner.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

But you have to agree that's going to take an enormous amount of capital.

[Robert Hattin]

Sure.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

So investing in a sleeper economy like income trusts certainly isn't going to help us. Would you agree that's going to be counterproductive to doing those things?

[Art Church]

My point was not about the income trust thing. My point was grandfathering it, and that equals what I call stability. The government should have said that from now on we're not doing that anymore, retroactively causing collapses in values and everything else. It's a very scary concept to people who invest and own.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

We're trying to get some solutions. We're getting some great stuff from you.

Those are the challenges we face as a government. We're also hearing from immigration, you're right. That's a big problem. I don't know if anybody asked the question. Have you any ideas? We're competing with the Americans.

[Robert Hattin]

Bring in half a million people a year, and we'll go out and recruit them. Someone is going to say, oh my God, we're already bringing in 225,000 people; that's half a million people. It's in my dissertation here. Between now and the year 2050, half the world's population growth is going to come from nine countries, eight of which are either economically, environmentally, or politically unstable. The only one is the U.S.A., and if we don't get younger and bigger to at least defend our borders, it's going to be a real issue, so that's why I'm big on immigration. Bring in half a million people.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

That's a good recommendation to go and make recruitment lines. Go to these countries and try to recruit them.

[Robert Hattin]

Right. They're doing it to our people and we're subsidizing.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

You're right, this is very difficult. The Americans are doing it, the Europeans are doing it, so we need to be more aggressive.

Mr. Church.

[Art Church]

Get the right 250,000.