Industry Committee on June 15th, 2011

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Yes. It's actually consistent with what we did last time: Each committee member in attendance shall be permitted to have one staff member attend any in camera meeting. In addition, each party shall be permitted to have one staff member from a House officer attend in camera meetings.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

They don't trust you?

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

I've noticed there seem to be a lot of NDP staff members buzzing around lately, so....

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

They're too busy setting up our offices.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Go ahead, Mr. Julian.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The functioning at previous industry committees has been more in keeping with the motion as originally read, right?

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Not previously, no; last time, it was the way I read it.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

We'll certainly consult on that.

I think that was the case--is that right--that we were allowed a party officer as well?

[The Clerk]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Okay.

Mr. Lake's motion is consistent with our practice.

Mr. Julian.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

The only nuance is that each member gets a member from their office and the caucus, or the caucus members as a whole get the member from their party. It's a little less flexible than the motion as originally read.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

The motion as originally read says that they can have a member present from their office or from the party. So in Ted's case, he could have one person here.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Yes.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

But under the way I've read it, in Ted's case he could have two. He could have his own staff member plus someone from his whip's office. If they needed to come in for something, they could come in.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Could you read it again, then? I think I misunderstood.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

The way I read it was as follows: Each committee member in attendance shall be permitted to have one staff member attend any in camera meeting. In addition, each party shall be permitted to have one staff member from a House officer attend in camera meetings.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Agreed? Or at least understood?

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

So you're saying that in addition, each party is entitled to have one there.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Each party.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Okay.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

So in your case, each of the four of you could have one staff member, plus there could be someone from your House leader's office or your whip's office come in.

Let's say you need a technical expert to come in and advise you on procedure. You'd have the ability to do that and not have to kick someone out of the room.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Mr. Masse.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

I made this point last time when we talked about this. At one point, parliamentary secretaries weren't even on committees, and then that was introduced. Nothing against Mr. Lake, but it clearly was an intrusion on the independence of the committees. This is a continued erosion of that by allowing the whip's office to be present during the committee.

The whole point of committees is that they're supposed to be independent. They're supposed to give advice to the minister and to the government and to the rest of Parliament. What's happened is that we've seen this drilling down. In the past, the Conservatives used to actually oppose this--the Canadian Alliance at that time, because it was during a Liberal majority government that the actual parliamentary secretary position was introduced to committees.

This element here, I'm.... We obviously don't have the votes to prevent it from happening, but I clearly want to say again that it has been the diminishing of parliamentary committees in general on the Hill. I don't think this committee, to be honest, has suffered too much from that, but it certainly has changed the makeup in relation to how we do business. There is no doubt about that. I have witnessed that enough over the years.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Mr. Lake.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

In fairness, I'm not exactly sure what Brian's talking about, because I think for anybody who's been here in the past and who's been within an in camera meeting, it's completely usual for any of us, from the three parties that are still represented here, to have someone other than just our own office staff come into a meeting of the industry committee.

Again, there are always experts in procedure from the House leader's office or whatever the case might be; I don't know who the other people are who come in on the other side. Clearly, if you go from committee to committee to committee, you see the same people in the rooms advising on what their party's interpretation of things are or whatever, and advising in terms of procedure. That happens on a regular basis.

It has nothing to do with my being a parliamentary secretary, first of all, and it's clearly not unusual, and hasn't been unusual, for the NDP.