Industry Committee on April 30th, 2013

[Scott Smith]

Yes. The only thing I would add to that is we talked about tax incentives for adoption of ICT. I think that the government's role in that could be looked at.

To Corinne's point, I think business generally would prefer to find its own solutions. That's probably not where we would see a role for government.

[Glenn Thibeault, NDP, Sudbury, ON]

How much time do I have, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

You have 50 seconds.

[Glenn Thibeault, NDP, Sudbury, ON]

I'll be very brief. You mentioned an interesting point. I'm sure you're well aware, as many people are, the New Democrats are going across the country, talking to small business owners about the merchant fees they're paying, and talking about some of the changes we would like to see, what we're proposing, and what stakeholders and small businesses would like to see.

You mentioned surcharging, which is something we're putting out there. I'm hearing from small businesses that they don't want a surcharge. If they surcharge, that cost is going from Visa and MasterCard right to the consumer, and it's not addressing the problem.

They want to see government action, which they're not getting, to address this problem. If we keep this open, how is that going to continue to affect small businesses? When we know mobile payments are coming, when we see language trying to skirt co-badging, this inaction will be detrimental to small business, won't it?

[Corinne Pohlmann]

We believe that we need to look at things like surcharging. I agree, most of our members are not going to want to surcharge, and I understand that. The point behind the idea of allowing the surcharging is that it gives power back into their hands. We know in other international examples around the world that, where they have allowed surcharging, small businesses rarely use it, but it gives the power back to the merchant to at least push back a little on the credit card companies, in terms of what they're doing.

I think the “honour-all-cards” rule is another one that needs to be eliminated, because then they can say no to certain cards.

I think consumers are more and more aware of that, especially independent businesses. We do see a lot of empathy for those independent small businesses among consumers now too. They don't take out their premium cards.

[Glenn Thibeault, NDP, Sudbury, ON]

An education campaign would help, wouldn't it? Then consumers understand, if they're being surcharged, that we're not addressing the problem.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

We're way over, but I allowed the answer.

Thank you, Madam Pohlmann.

I think there's one thing some of my colleagues would not be aware of. Could you briefly mention the members of FinPay for the benefit of all colleagues?

[Corinne Pohlmann]

It includes the banks, the credit card companies. I believe the Consumers' Association of Canada, and the Retail Council of Canada are part of it as well. I don't think it's all the banks. I don't sit on it, but our president, Dan Kelly, does.

I believe that's the mix. It's a mix of credit card companies, banks, and the retailers, being the Retail Council of Canada and us.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

How's that negotiation been going?

[Corinne Pohlmann]

It probably started about the beginning of this year or late last year. They are meeting every two to three months. They have a meeting this week.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Colleagues, I'm sorry for the digression, but I thought everybody would want to know that.

[Paul Temple]

Excuse me, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you, Mr. Harris.

Mr. Lake, you have five minutes.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Sorry. Mr. Temple wants to say something.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Oh, I'm sorry.

Mr. Lake, hang on for a second.

Yes, Mr. Temple.

[Paul Temple]

Sorry to interrupt, but when I agreed to appear, I also indicated that I had to leave at 5 o'clock. I didn't want to sneak out and let you think I was getting bored or was trying to avoid any questions.

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

In five more minutes I would have got to you.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

It was Mr. Lake's opportunity. He probably would have been the one who was offended, Mr. Temple. That's fine.

[Paul Temple]

My apologies. Again, thank you for including me.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you, Mr. Temple, for your testimony. I appreciate it.

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

May I ask for one moment of leniency to ask Mr. Temple to provide something to the committee at a later time, if he's willing?

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Certainly.

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

In number 11 of your opening statement, you mentioned that you believe there should be a strengthening of government programs such as SR and ED. Would you be able to provide the committee with more of a rationale as to why you believe that program should be enhanced?

[Paul Temple]

Certainly.

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thank you very much.

My apologies to Mr. Lake.