Evidence of meeting #5 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was products.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Scott Smith  Director, Intellectual Property and Innovation Policy, Canadian Chamber of Commerce
Lorne Lipkus  Partner, Kestenberg Siegal Lipkus LLP, Canadian Intellectual Property Council, Canadian Chamber of Commerce
Jim Keon  President, Canadian Generic Pharmaceutical Association
Carla Ventin  Vice-President, Federal Government Affairs, Food and Consumer Products of Canada
Vladimir V. Gagachev  Manager, Regulatory Affairs, Electrical Sector, Eaton Industries (Canada) Company

5 p.m.

Partner, Kestenberg Siegal Lipkus LLP, Canadian Intellectual Property Council, Canadian Chamber of Commerce

Lorne Lipkus

I've been involved in cases, in fact, several cases, and one was in the Toronto area where apparel was being manufactured. We found banks of sewing machines. In two of the cases I was involved in, there were immigrants who were in the country illegally and were being paid $4 an hour. That was just a few years ago, and that is what came out of the police investigation. They were manufacturing counterfeit apparel.

5 p.m.

Conservative

Rob Merrifield Conservative Yellowhead, AB

That begs the question that if we find counterfeiters making counterfeit goods in Canada or in the United States, which are countries with the rule of law, is there a law against that in itself?

5 p.m.

Partner, Kestenberg Siegal Lipkus LLP, Canadian Intellectual Property Council, Canadian Chamber of Commerce

5 p.m.

Conservative

Rob Merrifield Conservative Yellowhead, AB

Then are we dealing with that in our court system?

5 p.m.

Partner, Kestenberg Siegal Lipkus LLP, Canadian Intellectual Property Council, Canadian Chamber of Commerce

5 p.m.

Conservative

Rob Merrifield Conservative Yellowhead, AB

Both in the United States and in Canada?

5 p.m.

Partner, Kestenberg Siegal Lipkus LLP, Canadian Intellectual Property Council, Canadian Chamber of Commerce

5 p.m.

Conservative

Rob Merrifield Conservative Yellowhead, AB

Okay.

That takes us to Europe. We just signed a EU free trade agreement.

Are we seeing the same thing there, and the potential for that kind of a pipeline happening in Europe?

5 p.m.

Partner, Kestenberg Siegal Lipkus LLP, Canadian Intellectual Property Council, Canadian Chamber of Commerce

Lorne Lipkus

Yes. And they have their laws that relate to that.

The issue is that in Canada and the United States we're more assemblers than manufacturers.

Upwards of 80% of the counterfeits that we find are from China, but we—

5 p.m.

Conservative

Rob Merrifield Conservative Yellowhead, AB

But with a piece of the electrical coming in, you have to bring those things in pieces and put them together. It would be just as illegal and just as dangerous.

5 p.m.

Partner, Kestenberg Siegal Lipkus LLP, Canadian Intellectual Property Council, Canadian Chamber of Commerce

Lorne Lipkus

Correct. That's assembling, and we have laws that make that illegal.

5 p.m.

Conservative

Rob Merrifield Conservative Yellowhead, AB

Do the laws in Europe and/or in the United States resemble what we're trying to do in this bill?

5 p.m.

Partner, Kestenberg Siegal Lipkus LLP, Canadian Intellectual Property Council, Canadian Chamber of Commerce

5 p.m.

Conservative

Rob Merrifield Conservative Yellowhead, AB

Do they have them already?

5 p.m.

Partner, Kestenberg Siegal Lipkus LLP, Canadian Intellectual Property Council, Canadian Chamber of Commerce

5 p.m.

Conservative

Rob Merrifield Conservative Yellowhead, AB

In both cases?

5 p.m.

Partner, Kestenberg Siegal Lipkus LLP, Canadian Intellectual Property Council, Canadian Chamber of Commerce

5 p.m.

Conservative

Rob Merrifield Conservative Yellowhead, AB

So we're not ahead or behind.

5 p.m.

Partner, Kestenberg Siegal Lipkus LLP, Canadian Intellectual Property Council, Canadian Chamber of Commerce

Lorne Lipkus

We're behind right now.

They started off without a simplified procedure, as an example, and they've all gone to the simplified procedure. Just as Australia is now moving to a simplified procedure, those that were without it are realizing they need it.

5 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Sweet

Thank you very much, Mr. Merrifield.

Now on to Mr. Thibeault for five minutes.

5 p.m.

NDP

Glenn Thibeault NDP Sudbury, ON

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, witnesses, for being here today.

I think one of the interesting things you'll find around this table is that we're all in agreement that we need to keep counterfeit products out of our country. As was said on Monday, that's really important, no matter what colour of tie we have or what party we sit on.

What I find interesting, though, is that from testimony to testimony, from witness to witness, we're hearing that once resources are allocated, we find more counterfeit. In the report we have here about Project O'Scorpion, we were able to capture $78 million from one year to the next. That's fantastic.

Thinking about the products we're seeing...you talked about the mining circuit breaker. I'm thinking about the thousands of men and women who go down the mines in my riding, and if that were one of those circuit breakers, what could happen? They are family and friends, not just in Sudbury but right across the country, so we need to do what we can.

Again, we heard my colleague Mr. Masse talking about the reduction of CBSA officers in dog detection. Even in this report, in 2012 the RCMP reported a total of 726 occurrences, a slight decrease from the previous year due to other priority cases drawing upon federal resources.

I think we need this to become a priority, to ensure that we're protecting our citizens and keeping these products off our streets. It's very concerning to see these type of things. From the training aspect, to the education of CBSA officers, to the allocation of resources and putting more of the officers on the front lines, it's a priority.

Mr. Lipkus, I guess I'll start with you. Isn't that a priority? Isn't it something we should be looking at?

5:05 p.m.

Partner, Kestenberg Siegal Lipkus LLP, Canadian Intellectual Property Council, Canadian Chamber of Commerce

Lorne Lipkus

Certainly every brand owner I know and every organization that deals with counterfeit want this to be a priority. Those who are involved, especially those in the field, see the dangers of counterfeit product and an increase in the involvement of organized crime. The amount of money that's being made is increasing on a yearly basis.

I first started doing this work in 1985, and there has not been one year, including this year, that we haven't seen more counterfeit than the previous year. It's on the rise, and those in this industry would like to see as much resource allocation as possible.

5:05 p.m.

NDP

Glenn Thibeault NDP Sudbury, ON

Great.

This relates to the in-transit, the current exclusion.

Am I understanding correctly that your organization is not in favour of that? Did I understand that correctly?

5:05 p.m.

Partner, Kestenberg Siegal Lipkus LLP, Canadian Intellectual Property Council, Canadian Chamber of Commerce

5:05 p.m.

Director, Intellectual Property and Innovation Policy, Canadian Chamber of Commerce

Scott Smith

Essentially, we're not in favour of an exclusion of in-transit, largely because it doesn't capture things that could be re-entering the Canadian marketplace, and it's inconsistent with our major trading partner in the U.S.