Evidence of meeting #12 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was nrc.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Claude Majeau  Vice-Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Copyright Board of Canada
Gilles McDougall  Secretary General, Copyright Board of Canada
Justice Robert A. Blair  Chairman, Copyright Board of Canada
Maria Aubrey  Acting President, National Research Council of Canada
Roman Szumski  Vice-President, Life Sciences, National Research Council of Canada
Bogdan Ciobanu  Vice-President, Industrial Research Assistance Program, National Research Council of Canada

4:15 p.m.

Vice-Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Copyright Board of Canada

Claude Majeau

The answer is no. The only information we have from the department is that they are looking into maybe having regulations in place at some point, but all they seem to be looking at is procedures. On the very question of the budget and/or financial resources, I never heard anything from them.

4:15 p.m.

NDP

Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON

Since the time I've been here, I've seen your role expand quite significantly. It's gone from a smaller to a more complex operation. Is that a correct perception?

4:15 p.m.

Vice-Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Copyright Board of Canada

Claude Majeau

It is a correct perception. It was acknowledged by all industry witnesses when they appeared before the heritage committee on the question of the future of the music industry in Canada. What you're saying is supported by most, if not all, stakeholders.

4:15 p.m.

NDP

Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON

We're hearing that, too. I have a letter from Mr. Nantel to the government back...and it confirms some of the questions.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Dan Ruimy

Wrap it up, Mr. Masse.

4:15 p.m.

NDP

Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON

With only 13 employees and the complexities you are addressing, you have an unimaginable task.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Dan Ruimy

Thank you very much.

Gentlemen, that concludes this part of the session. Thank you very much for coming and answering our questions.

We will suspend for a few minutes and then go in camera, because the NRC's not here yet. We'll see if we can address some issues so we can get out on time today.

[Proceedings continue in camera]

[Public proceedings resume]

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Dan Ruimy

Thank you very much for waiting for us outside while we took care of some housekeeping duties. It was much appreciated.

With us today, from the National Research Council of Canada, we have Maria Aubrey, acting president; Mr. Bogdan Ciobanu, vice-president, industrial research assistance program; and Roman Szumski, vice-president, life sciences.

You have 10 minutes.

4:40 p.m.

Maria Aubrey Acting President, National Research Council of Canada

Good afternoon. My name is Maria Aubrey and I'm the acting president of the National Research Council. I'm joined by the NRC vice-president of life services, Dr. Roman Szumski, as well as the vice-president of our industrial research assistance program, very well known as IRAP, Mr. Bogdan Ciobanu.

I'm pleased to provide the members of the Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology with an overview of the NRC, our role within Canada's innovation system, and some examples of how we're fulfilling our role and our vision for the future.

The NRC's budget for 2016-17 is approximately $1.05 billion, with $287 million of that earmarked for IRAP contributions.

The organization has 3,700 employees, with scientific facilities and infrastructure located across Canada. The R and D capabilities of our staff cover a broad range of scientific and engineering disciplines, from microbiologists to aerospace engineers and from quantum physicists to organic chemists.

The NRC has a rich history of using its expertise and specialized infrastructure to tackle complex innovation challenges for Canada.

This year we celebrate our 100th anniversary. We have made remarkable contributions to Canada over that time, from developing the cardiac pacemaker, to anti-counterfeiting technologies, to delivering a vaccine for infant meningitis for the world. NRC is certainly proud of its accomplishments.

One thing that's helped to ensure our longevity and valuable contributions to Canada is our ability to evolve and to respond to the changing needs of the country. At this time of significant change, where the pace and the intensity of global competition and the complexity of global challenges is increasing, innovation is essential to Canada's success and its prosperity. NRC is once again well positioned and ready to help Canada meet the challenges of the 21st century.

Our areas of R and D focus are driven by long-term perspectives, and they are focused on the needs and issues facing the country over the next few decades. They include issues such as the environment and climate change, health, security, communities, natural resources, and of course sustainable economic development.

I'd like to give you some current examples of work we're doing to help Canada tackle some of these challenges.

Agriculture is not only a sector that's vital to Canada, but also one that we believe we can make more productive, profitable, and environmentally sustainable through innovation. That's why NRC is part of a partnership known as the Canadian Wheat Alliance, which involves Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada, the Province of Saskatchewan, and the University of Saskatchewan. This 11-year commitment to collaborate on long-term R and D integrates complementary areas of expertise among the partner organizations in wheat breeding, genomics, biotechnology, and pathology. Through this research, the Canadian Wheat Alliance members are working to develop new wheat varieties. Benefits to Canada include the production of stable and increased wheat yields, better resistance of wheat to environmental and disease stresses, reduced agricultural input costs, lower environmental impacts, and improved prosperity for Canadian farmers.

In the area of clean technologies, NRC is collaborating with key partners, including industry, to deploy an algal carbon conversion demonstration plant. What's really exciting is that the facility will use marine algae to convert carbon dioxide emissions—for example emissions from manufacturing industries such as steel, pulp and paper, or oil and gas—into biomass, which can then be converted to biofuels or other valuable products. Successful deployment will propel Canada to be a world leader in managing carbon emissions and resources, and help to create and expand markets for Canadian photobioreactor producers.

Clients and collaborators often come to the NRC because we can quickly mobilize skills from across our diverse R and D capabilities. For example, NRC engineers, biologists, and chemists worked together with private sector partners to enable the development of a novel bio jet fuel. This product was then used to fly the world's first civil aircraft with 100% bio jet fuel. Validating and demonstrating the viability of the bio jet fuel was a critical step in helping the companies involved work toward commercializing their technologies.

I've given you some examples of how the NRC has succeeded in stimulating innovation and economic development for the country. But what I am often asked is what exactly the NRC's role is in Canada's innovation system. We play a complementary and vital bridging role across university research, the research activities of other government departments, and the R and D needs of Canadian industry.

Our breadth of expertise, our globally rare or unique scientific infrastructure, and our national scope enable the NRC to bring together players from across the innovation spectrum in Canada and abroad.

We work collaboratively in areas of common interest with other federal science-based departments and agencies, which typically conduct R and D to help inform policy and regulatory decision-making. While the expertise of other federal departments typically lies in one domain, such as health or agriculture, NRC is involved in a wide variety of science and engineering disciplines. This breadth of expertise allows us to help them address issues or look at problems through a multi-dimensional lens. NRC also plays a complementary role with universities, which often have knowledge as a primary focus for their R and D. NRC conducts R and D, including basic research, with the aim of applying it to address challenges we foresee in Canada. We keep a pulse on the basic science activities within the universities and other organizations, allowing us to proactively identify and address evolving needs.

NRC also works directly with Canadian companies to help address their innovation needs and challenges. Our role is to help Canadian industry adopt, adapt, and develop technologies that are expected to yield innovative products, services, or processes.

Going forward, NRC sees opportunities to further strengthen its R and D program impacts. We're well positioned to convene the right players and work collectively to tackle some of the grand and enduring innovation challenges facing Canada. We're excited at the prospect of working to support the government's upcoming innovation agenda, and our over-arching aim is to help ensure a prosperous future for Canada.

Thank you again for your interest in NRC. My two colleagues are here with me, and given that I have only been at NRC for a short while, and acting president for an even shorter time, I will rely on them for depth because my knowledge is just skimming the surface.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Dan Ruimy

Keeping the time in mind, the first round of questions will be five minutes each. We should get through a complete round, and we'll go from there.

Mr. Arya.

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

Chandra Arya Liberal Nepean, ON

Thank you, Ms. Aubrey, for coming here. We really look forward to working with you.

Mr. Ciobanu, I noticed that you were in India a couple of months back, signing agreements. Welcome back to Canada.

I am from Ottawa, and I personally know a number of scientists and research staff who work for NRC, and trust me, during the last several years, we had quite an earful from the people working at NRC

Basic research is very important, not only for Canada, but I think all strong economies invest in basic research. We also know that the knowledge is passed on from generation to generation, not just by books or by codes; it's also passed on through personal interaction. From the cuts in the basic research during the last few years, I think we may have lost a generation of knowledge there.

As I mentioned, the scientists complained not just about dropping innovation, but they said there was an urgent need for a strategy to support NRC staff in transition as research programs end. They also complained about the lack of opportunities for them to participate in scientific conferences, maybe due to the cuts that were there. I also understand that there's a working group of NRC scientists and researchers who already do work with NRC senior management to address various issues.

Do you have any plans to meet them?

4:50 p.m.

Acting President, National Research Council of Canada

Maria Aubrey

The NRC is very conscious of the importance of listening to its researchers and to understand the motivation, the resources, and the researchers; and science is at the core of what we do at the NRC. We engage with them and encourage them to talk to us and to express their concerns and their desires, and we'll take all of those into consideration. The PIPSC group has reached out to the executive team and to me in particular, and we will be meeting with them in the next couple of weeks.

4:50 p.m.

Liberal

Chandra Arya Liberal Nepean, ON

I'm glad that you mentioned the importance of universities in connecting the scientific research. We have invested, I think, over a billion dollars through NSERC with 11,000 professors and about 30,000 post-graduate students and post-doctoral fellows. But even with that, I feel that the NRC has a significant role to play, because of its labs and its wide range of activities, with your scientists and your research workers.

Have you received any directives from the new Liberal government on the direction you have to take? I am quite happy that the planned reorganization has been postponed. I would like to know if you have received any directives from the new government on the path to take going forward?

4:50 p.m.

Acting President, National Research Council of Canada

Maria Aubrey

NRC is staying focused on its mandate. We are looking forward to engaging on the innovation agenda and understanding the path. I believe we have lots to contribute with our wide variety of capabilities, including the infrastructure, the facilities, specialized equipment, and so on.

Our focus is to continue to do what our act has highlighted for us to do, which is undertaking, assisting, and promoting scientific and industrial research in the fields of importance to Canada, providing scientific infrastructure, and providing the technical services that a lot of the SMEs in Canada would not otherwise have access to as they progress from early stages to commercialization. We believe all of those will support the government's agenda for innovation, and that NRC has tremendous capability to support that. Keep in mind that innovation is the whole spectrum, from basic research all the way to applied research, commercialization, demonstration, pilots, technical services, and so on.

4:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Dan Ruimy

You have 30 seconds.

4:50 p.m.

Liberal

Chandra Arya Liberal Nepean, ON

Of course, as you know, the National Research Council Act mentions both scientific and industrial research. It's not one against the other. All the things you mentioned about cardiac pacemakers to vaccines, etc., came through the basic research NRC had undertaken. Hopefully, going forward, you'll continue to do the same.

4:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Dan Ruimy

Mr. Nuttall, you have five minutes.

May 5th, 2016 / 4:50 p.m.

Conservative

Alex Nuttall Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON

There was a question Mr. Arya asked that I would like an answer to, which is, what directives have you received from the government? You can say none. That's an answer.

4:50 p.m.

Acting President, National Research Council of Canada

Maria Aubrey

We are aware of the mandates of the—

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

Alex Nuttall Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON

This is an easy question to answer.

4:50 p.m.

Acting President, National Research Council of Canada

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

Alex Nuttall Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON

In one of the debates—in fact, it was in the election—we were talking back and forth about applied research versus basic research. Mr. Arya picked up on that again. With the current funding model within your organization, is there or has there been a change in the past six months or eight months in regard to funding for applied research versus basic research?

4:55 p.m.

Acting President, National Research Council of Canada

Maria Aubrey

There hasn't been a change in the funding applied. The process by which NRC makes its investments is a logical stage-gated process. It starts with the identification of the need by industry engagement stakeholders and the expected outcomes. Depending on the stage of the innovation, and the many specific factors that go into it, NRC then determines the level of investment required for that particular initiative.

We encourage it to be collaborative, for obvious reasons, but it's not based on how much we put into basic research or applied research. It's really the whole spectrum. Some of the programs start very early, and we need to reach out into the fundamental research and then walk it all the way through. There hasn't been a change. It's been the selection of the programs and the focus of the programs.

The critical thing is understanding what the outcome is going to be and being able to identify, as we go through the delivery of those programs, how we can recognize that we're going in that direction. If we need to shift the investment, or the resources, or where the focus should be, then we do that.

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

Alex Nuttall Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON

At the end of this year, will we see an increase in the amount invested in basic research and a reduction in the amount invested in applied research?

4:55 p.m.

Acting President, National Research Council of Canada

Maria Aubrey

I have no indication that we would do any reduction of either. We have programs that were identified for meeting the objectives for Canada. Our focus is on delivering those outcomes. When you're dealing with innovation, of course, the de-risking is one of the three components, and sometimes as you evolve you need to invest more at different times. Even figuring out exactly how much a portion of it is basic research or applied research is totally dependent on a particular period of time for what that program is doing. NRC needs to balance that, and both of them are absolutely critical.