Evidence of meeting #12 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was nrc.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4 p.m.
Liberal
4 p.m.
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thanks for being with us.
I'd like to get a sense of the limits your powers are subject to. My understanding is that your authority is limited to collective management societies.
Could you explain to us what a collective management society is and why your authority is limited to those organizations?
4 p.m.
Secretary General, Copyright Board of Canada
A collective management society collectively administers the rights of owners for a specific type of right or work. For example, SOCAN is a collective management society that administers the communication rights of authors and composers. Ré:Sonne is a management body that administers the communication rights of producers and artists. Other management bodies administer the reproduction rights of those same rights owners.
4 p.m.
Liberal
4 p.m.
Secretary General, Copyright Board of Canada
It's the communication of music. CMRRA-SODRAC Inc., or CSI, deals with the reproduction of music. They represent the same rights owners, but for two different types of rights.
In some countries, the same collective management society administers both types of rights, but not in Canada.
4 p.m.
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
Does the fact that separate organizations administer those two types of rights matter?
4 p.m.
Vice-Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Copyright Board of Canada
In most countries, I think both rights are managed by a single collective management society, but not in all. A collective management society's role is to represent all the owners of similar rights, but it is also to make an extensive repertoire of works available to users. A collective management society connects rights owners with groups of users. If, for example, a tariff is imposed on the music played in a restaurant, it will be imposed on all restaurant owners, collectively, and not on each one individually. What it does is allow for a much more efficient management process.
4 p.m.
Liberal
4 p.m.
Vice-Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Copyright Board of Canada
There are more than 30, but the board deals with only 8 or 10.
4 p.m.
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
It is those 8 or 10 that are really active and that make work for you.
4 p.m.
Vice-Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Copyright Board of Canada
Precisely.
I'd like to add to what my colleague was saying, if I may. It's important to understand that rights owners, themselves, could not collect royalties from every broadcaster, in hotels, restaurants, and so forth. Music is played in many public spaces, known, in France, as target areas, or “endroits localisés”. Music is played in elevators, on the phone while people are on hold, and on and on and on. When music is played in public places, it is actually referred to as a public performance. This aspect is protected under so-called small rights—as opposed to grand rights—representing a bundle of small rights.
4 p.m.
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
Very good. I see.
I realize you are already overburdened from a workload perspective, but would it be helpful to examine how those 30 collective management societies administer these issues and have them submit applications to you?
4:05 p.m.
Vice-Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Copyright Board of Canada
These issues will no doubt be part of the parliamentary committee's review in 2017, at least, I would think so. It may even be this committee who does it, if not a special committee.
We have tried, with some success, to hold combined hearings. In some cases, when the same music user was involved, we heard from six or seven collective management societies in one shot. They were there representing authors, music producers, and so on, and a number of rights were at stake, mainly communication rights and reproduction rights. So what we did was hold combined hearings, and that benefited everyone.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
Given your very limited resources, I would think having the ability to bring six or seven collectives together at the same time would help you operate much more efficiently.
4:05 p.m.
Vice-Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Copyright Board of Canada
That's possible. It's something that would have to be examined. It's an option.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
Very well.
Are there other things that could help the board operate more efficiently? If you had the resources you needed, what would you do to operate more efficiently?
You have 15 seconds to answer.
4:05 p.m.
Some hon. members
Oh, oh!
4:05 p.m.
Vice-Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Copyright Board of Canada
I am sensing moral support from you. Already, that's a lot.
4:05 p.m.
Some hon. members
Oh, oh!
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Dan Ruimy
All that laughter took it all up. Sorry.
We are moving to Mr. Lobb. You have five minutes.
May 5th, 2016 / 4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
I want to ask about the board's ad hoc committee that was struck in November 2012 and was going to focus on three narrow areas. It's been well over 1,200 days since that committee was struck, and they were going to look at specific and narrow issues. Does the board or its committees have an update on when they'll be ready to share their recommended changes?
4:05 p.m.
Vice-Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Copyright Board of Canada
As I said in my presentation, first, there were about 40 recommendations, if I'm not mistaken. Second, at the same moment, the board was made aware that parallel initiatives were taken by the department. We wanted to benefit from other studies being done in parallel with what we initiated.
The problem is also that when we did the consultations—either the working group itself with its eight members, plus the public consultations—the ones who could agree went from one end of the spectrum to the other. Maybe Gilles could give us some examples of things where they didn't agree. Some parties were asking the board to be more active within interrogatories. When they're in their interrogatories, the board should be active. Other parties said that would be contrary to natural justice and that the board should not be involved.
What do you do when one side says the board should be more active and the other side says the board should not be?
4:05 p.m.
Vice-Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Copyright Board of Canada
No, it does not. It does not have the authority to charge fees.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative