Industry Committee on May 5th, 2016

[Maria Aubrey]

Mr. Chair, this is very special for us because it's one of the areas that the NRC has put a lot of emphasis on, and we have a large number of locations, but I'll let Mr. Ciobanu talk to this, because it's obviously closest to his heart.

[Bogdan Ciobanu, Vice-President, Industrial Research Assistance Program, National Research Council of Canada]

We have exactly the model that you are talking about. We try to have our field staff as close as possible to the clients and as close as possible to different organizations that are active and present in the communities, so IRAP ITAs, industrial technology advisers, are located in 123 places all over Canada. Their main role is, first, to understand very well the makeup of their territory in terms of small businesses, medium-sized businesses, investors, regional development organizations, universities, colleges, and so on; and they are always central in the innovation ecosystems of communities.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

I'd love to talk all day on this. We have five minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

Actually you have three minutes, and you can't talk all day.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

I don't want to cut you short, but I want to pull out some more information. It's good to hear that 123 is the number.

If we're working on a manufacturing strategy and we have different strengths in different parts of the country, is information available on what types of businesses you're working on, so that we might be able to see that in one part of the country you're working really well with a certain sector but you're not working as well in other parts, and maybe we could provide some assistance and so on?

[Bogdan Ciobanu]

First, all of our clients have been disclosed proactively on the website, but we have a manufacturing sector team. We have ITAs from different regions—who are active, and understand the sector, and are interested in it, and can bring something to the sector—joining forces and providing this kind of support, first of all, on information sharing and for different initiatives and companies.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Perfect. Thank you. We'll be in touch, then.

Over to life sciences, when we look at genetically modified seeds, looking at alfalfa as an example in western Canada, the IP protection on, let's say, seed development at the universities or through NRC, could you briefly touch on how NRC, universities, and commercialization work in terms of something that could be controversial like GMOs?

[Roman Szumski]

We don't have any current examples of working on a GMO, but I could give you an example of our wheat program. Wheat breeding is typically a public sector activity, and in Canada the wheat varieties are bred by organizations like Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada, the University of Saskatchewan, and other universities across the country. We are working with those two groups in a collaboration, so that we can bring our biological expertise and our gene sequencing and our incredible genomic understanding of these organisms and plants and help the breeders, using their classic techniques, to more rapidly develop varieties.

In terms of GMO, as you know, canola is mostly a GMO across Canada. That's something that NRC was involved in decades ago in developing, along with the University of Saskatchewan and Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Who owns the IP?

[Roman Szumski]

It's very complex. In a situation like that there are many groups that own IP along the way. At the end of the day, it's the companies that sell the seeds that have the critical IP they own, which gives them the right to sell.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

Mr. Dreeshen, you have five minutes.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer—Mountain View, AB]

I can only go back to 2008-09 as far as the investments that I've seen as far as science and technology is concerned. It has been billions and billions of dollars in all different areas, and you end up talking about the billion dollars that you have at this point in time.

Going back to 2009, and some of the things the government did, there was $750 million for leading-edge research infrastructure to the Canadian Foundation for Innovation, $50 million for the Institute of Quantum Computing in Waterloo to build a new world-class research facility, $110 million over three years to the Canadian Space Agency to support the development of advanced robotics, and $200 million over two years to the National Research Council's industrial research assistance program to enable it to temporarily expand its initiatives for small and medium-sized businesses.

We're going to be dealing with a study on initiatives for small and medium-sized businesses. I'm wondering if we could start by describing where that $200 million through your program is going and what you feel the advantages will be as we move forward in the future.

[Maria Aubrey]

I will ask Mr. Ciobanu to talk about it. He is very close to IRAP.

[Bogdan Ciobanu]

Let me help you better understand it. It was about $200 million over two years that was allocated to IRAP in 2009-10. It was a two-year allocation. That $100 million per year was a long time ago. I've been here for less time than that, you understand.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer—Mountain View, AB]

Okay.

[Bogdan Ciobanu]

This was for core IRAP, meaning it was for helping companies grow through technological innovation projects.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer—Mountain View, AB]

I wanted to look at some of the things that have been happening, the research dollars that have been there, and of course the great things in innovation that have taken place because of it.

Another point that has always been brought up—as an educator—is applied research and basic research, whether it's going through universities or colleges. Yes, the dollars are there, but it depends on who you're talking to as to what percentage should go into which. Should we be putting more into applied research, so that maybe it can tie in closer to the local innovators you would see in the communities? Of course, the arguments go the other way, as well. You get a bigger chunk of the pie, but have you ever considered putting more of a percentage into the applied research side of the equation?

[Maria Aubrey]

At NRC, when we look at where the investment and money should go, it's directly tied to the needs of Canada and what's been identified. It's about working closely with industry, other federal governments, and academia, and understanding and validating the direction that is required and the complex problems that need to be solved.

The intent is that the research that's done has an end point and an outcome in mind. If the problem that needs to be solved is complex and early, then you need to start at the basic research. At the end, you have to go through the applied research.

The investment needs to be commensurate with what you're trying to solve. We need to make sure we keep in mind and address those adjustments.

There will be times when the balance might shift from one end or the other, but at the end of the day, we have to do it with the end outcome in mind and make sure that it meets the end-user's criteria, and get it into Canadian hands, so we can exploit it and turn it into economic value.

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

You still have about 40 seconds.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer—Mountain View, AB]

I also appreciate having Mr. Szumski here to talk about life sciences and the great research that has been done. As a farmer from western Canada, I know about the Canadian Wheat Alliance and the amazing things that have been done in research. Whether it's that work, or it's the work that's been done with canola, it's one of those crops that feeds the world because of the technology and the innovation that is there.

I'm wondering if you could talk about some of the things you see going forward. I know I only have a few seconds for you to summarize something that is really important to western Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

I'm very eager to hear that answer, but make it brief.

[Roman Szumski]

In addition to improving the plants themselves, we also spent a fair bit of effort working on how to extract value from all parts of those plants, whether it's interesting chemicals or new greener ways of producing cosmetics and that type of thing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

Mr. Jowhari, you have five minutes.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

I want to go back to the innovation agenda. Let me summarize what I've heard, and then I'll ask my questions.

Based on the numbers that I looked at, there was an increase of about $60 million this year in the budget. I also heard that, based on Canada's needs, the focus is well-balanced between basic research, applied research, and commercialization. Also I understand that, based on the innovation agenda and the framework the government has put forward, NRC has been identified as one of the enablers.

Having said that, my question is, if the government were going to give you a directive, where do you think that directive should be focused?