Evidence of meeting #21 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was plastics.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Isabelle Des Chênes  Executive Vice-President, Chemistry Industry Association of Canada
Jean-Robert Lessard  Special Adviser, Public and Government Relations, Groupe Robert Inc.
Logan Caragata  Director, Federal Government Affairs and Policy, Access Division, Hoffmann-La Roche Limited
Fanny Sie  Strategic Healthcare Partner, Artificial Intelligence and Digital Health , Hoffmann-La Roche Limited
Daniel Dagenais  Vice-President, Operations, Montreal Port Authority

3:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sherry Romanado

Thank you very much.

Our next round of questions goes to MP Lambropoulos.

Ms. Lambropoulos, you have the floor for five minutes.

June 5th, 2020 / 3:05 p.m.

Liberal

Emmanuella Lambropoulos Liberal Saint-Laurent, QC

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'd like to begin by thanking all the witnesses for being with us today.

Before I begin my questions, I want to mention to the committee that, at 12:55 today, the clerk sent out my notice of motion to all MPs in this committee. I'd like for us to discuss a draft report on June 22, a day that has already been set aside for committee business. I don't want to discuss this any further today. We can discuss it further on a committee business day so as to not take any further time away from the witnesses.

I'll continue on with my question.

My first question is for Mr. Dagenais, from the Montreal Port Authority.

The Port of Montreal is the biggest port in eastern Canada. It contributes to an ecosystem of 6,300 companies and represents 19,000 jobs.

Can you tell us how much of a decline in marine transportation operations Montreal has experienced?

Also, can you tell us how many people have lost their jobs at the Montreal Port Authority since the pandemic began?

3:05 p.m.

Vice-President, Operations, Montreal Port Authority

Daniel Dagenais

Thank you for your question.

As far as our operations are concerned, the first quarter of 2020 was quite good. However, beginning in mid-April—extending into the end of April and the month of May—we started feeling the effects of the downturn. The impact is now visible every day. Ship and train traffic is down. For fiscal 2020, we anticipate a drop in revenue of about 12%. As you know, our organization is self-financing, so we've had to make adjustments because of the 12% decrease. It's affected our capital spending plans, in other words, long-term investments in maintaining and building infrastructure. The goal is to balance cash flow.

Luckily, we haven't had to lay anyone off at the Montreal Port Authority, which employs 250 people. Our administrative staff, however, is currently working from home. Nearly half of our workforce is hard at work on the ground every single day, maintaining infrastructure, operating the port's own railway network and delivering services ranging from trucking and security to fire prevention.

3:05 p.m.

Liberal

Emmanuella Lambropoulos Liberal Saint-Laurent, QC

Thank you.

Do you have any specific recommendations for the federal government?

In the economic recovery, how can we help everyone get to a better place?

What actions can we take to support the Port of Montreal and marine transportation?

3:05 p.m.

Vice-President, Operations, Montreal Port Authority

Daniel Dagenais

The decrease in volume certainly had consequences for the port authority and its cash, so revenues. It forced us to make adjustments, which simply means deferring spending.

Naturally, assistance or flexibility of any kind that helps us continue to invest and contribute to the economic recovery is welcome. We already had construction projects planned. We have a $1.2-billion capitalization program spanning the next few years; it includes port expansion with the construction of a new container terminal in Contrecœur.

For the time being, all of that infrastructure is not in jeopardy. That said, some program flexibility, or support to ensure infrastructure sustainability or to advance investments would very much be appreciated. Both our clients and users would benefit, to be sure.

3:10 p.m.

Liberal

Emmanuella Lambropoulos Liberal Saint-Laurent, QC

Madam Chair, how much time do I have left?

3:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sherry Romanado

You have 33 seconds.

3:10 p.m.

Liberal

Emmanuella Lambropoulos Liberal Saint-Laurent, QC

Thirty-three seconds is not very much time for another question and answer, so I will let the rest of my time go.

Thank you very much.

3:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sherry Romanado

Our next round of questions goes to MP Patzer.

Mr. Patzer, you have the floor for five minutes.

3:10 p.m.

Conservative

Jeremy Patzer Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I'll start with the Groupe Robert.

Has your group heard that almost two months ago the Canadian Federation of Agriculture warned that a lack of financial stability and labour for farming could lead to gaps or breaks in our food system? As a shipping company, do you share their sense of urgency when it comes to maintaining domestic food supply?

3:10 p.m.

Special Adviser, Public and Government Relations, Groupe Robert Inc.

Jean-Robert Lessard

Yes, of course. I would say 45% of our volume is related to the food industry so we keep a very close eye on the new markets coming out after COVID.

We also see a lot of problems with the distribution. We have 32 distribution centres related to the food industry, and we have a lot of capacity. The problem is to get access in the big cities. As you are well aware, they have closed certain streets and certain areas to trucking. We would like to deliver the food but with a big trailer it would be mostly impossible, and that would have, for sure, a real effect on the cost of the food. If we have to bring our containers back to the distribution centre and put food in a small truck, it will have an impact on the cost for sure.

Any new regulation put on imports by the government has to be very well explained, because with all the agreements you could see, like the one between Canada and Europe, Europe ships 80% of its exports to Canada and Canada sends back only about 20% of that value, so we are losing on that.

We're not complaining because we do a lot of transportation to the Port of Montreal, but in fairness to the food industry in Canada, especially if you contact Groupe Export in Montreal, they will give you all these facts about how it's working, and if Canada puts pressure on food export compared to the import of European products.

3:10 p.m.

Conservative

Jeremy Patzer Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

Do you think the media reports and government announcements have communicated to the public the crucial importance of Canadian agri-food and its challenges?

3:10 p.m.

Special Adviser, Public and Government Relations, Groupe Robert Inc.

Jean-Robert Lessard

Yes, for sure.

I believe in agri-food because I sit on the board of Groupe Export in Montreal. One of the problems is that Groupe Export was very well organized to go to all kinds of exhibitions across the world, and now it's all governed at the federal level and that's created a problem because a lot of the companies are very unhappy about that situation.

I think we should have a second look at it and how agri-food works with the provinces. Some provinces are not well organized, but others, like the one in Quebec, are very well organized. We participate through SIAL in Montreal and in Toronto. We talk to the exhibitors and they worry about the future, not having the Groupe Export agroalimentaire involved in it.

3:15 p.m.

Conservative

Jeremy Patzer Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

Has enough been done to secure our food supply chains here in Canada, do you think?

3:15 p.m.

Special Adviser, Public and Government Relations, Groupe Robert Inc.

Jean-Robert Lessard

Oh, yes. We're getting more and more organized and technically with the systems in place, we have lots of good control regarding all types of food. I am talking about yogourt or fruit and vegetables or any other products.

We have to maintain quality through the trucking system and the distribution centres, and ensure that customers are secure with that. That could be the most important thing. We have no problem with the organization.

3:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sherry Romanado

Thank you very much, Monsieur Lessard.

Our next round of questions goes to MP Erskine-Smith. You have the floor for five minutes.

3:15 p.m.

Liberal

Nathaniel Erskine-Smith Liberal Beaches—East York, ON

Thanks very much. I just would ask a question very quickly to the Chemical Industry Association.

I took it that you weren't disputing the harm that plastics cause to the environment. You were questioning the science as it relates to toxicity for humans. Is that right?

3:15 p.m.

Executive Vice-President, Chemistry Industry Association of Canada

Isabelle Des Chênes

No. The draft science assessment that was conducted by Health Canada and Environment Canada was very clear. They reviewed health impacts and environmental impacts. It was a lot easier with the science available to them to really make strong links to some of the impacts on the environment, particularly endangering wildlife. For the health impacts, they noted that more research needed to be done. There just wasn't enough information available there to make assessments.

3:15 p.m.

Liberal

Nathaniel Erskine-Smith Liberal Beaches—East York, ON

Right, I took that. The intention of my question was to say that the evidence is clear in relation to the environment.

I guess the part I'm struggling to understand, as we have this conversation, is whether you agree that single-use plastics that are harmful for the environment should be prohibited.

3:15 p.m.

Executive Vice-President, Chemistry Industry Association of Canada

Isabelle Des Chênes

You know, I represent the plastics industry, so to say that we support a ban on single-use plastics is not something that—

3:15 p.m.

Liberal

Nathaniel Erskine-Smith Liberal Beaches—East York, ON

Even if they're unnecessary and harmful for the environment...?

3:15 p.m.

Executive Vice-President, Chemistry Industry Association of Canada

Isabelle Des Chênes

What we support is the CCME's zero plastic waste strategy. We support enhanced infrastructure for collection.

We don't support the fact that plastics are in the environment. They're far too valuable to be in the environment, frankly. They provide incredible inputs into new products, either through the plastics cycle—

3:15 p.m.

Liberal

Nathaniel Erskine-Smith Liberal Beaches—East York, ON

Look, I'm not talking about plastics writ large here. When I talk about single-use, unnecessary plastics like the plastic bags that I shouldn't really have in my house and that I collect from the grocery store en masse, surely you're not saying that has a significant and positive contribution to our economy. Is that what you're saying?

3:15 p.m.

Executive Vice-President, Chemistry Industry Association of Canada

Isabelle Des Chênes

Well, it supports thousands of jobs here in Canada. The most important thing is that it doesn't belong in the environment, so we need to put systems in place to ensure that it doesn't leak into the environment.

3:15 p.m.

Liberal

Nathaniel Erskine-Smith Liberal Beaches—East York, ON

One of which may be a prohibition.