Evidence of meeting #27 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 43rd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was stores.
A recording is available from Parliament.
National President, United Food and Commercial Workers Union Canada
Could I respond now, Madam Chair?
National President, United Food and Commercial Workers Union Canada
To the best of my ability, looking through my phone records here, it would have been June 8.
National President, United Food and Commercial Workers Union Canada
I will stand corrected if it's out by a day or two. I was trying to dig through my phone.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sherry Romanado
Thank you very much.
Our next round of questions goes to MP Rempel Garner. Ms. Rempel Garner, you have the floor for five minutes.
Conservative
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I'll take a slightly different tack. This is an industry that has been in transition, and it saw disruption prior to the pandemic. What I mean by that is that we're seeing more automation and seeing changes to the last mile of delivery. We have companies like Instacart. Drivers for Instacart aren't part of a union and don't have guaranteed hours and wages, but they're definitely part of the system now. I get the sense that what happened during the pandemic is.... There was a decision to close down restaurants, for example, as part of the public health measures, and that removed a substitute for grocery stores, so you saw an increase in profit for grocery stores.
In that context, as we look at policies to address some of the challenges that you have all brought up today as union leaders, I'll go back to the comment you made, Mr. Dias, that the $2 wage increase could potentially push people out of the CERB. Can you expand on that comment for me? We have Instacart, an increased profit margin and automation. Now we have the CERB. What are the broader impacts of the pandemic issues on the workforce that you represent? What would your recommendations be in terms of equity?
National President, Unifor
First of all, has there been a spike because of the pandemic? The answer is yes. Remember, Michelle, that Sobeys, Loblaws and Metro made two billion dollars' worth of profit last year. When is enough, enough? What's with the justification that increasing wages will have a negative impact on the price of food? One could argue that if they only made $1 billion instead of $2 billion, they could lower the price of food. These costs shouldn't be maintained on the backs of workers.
I raised a question and made a comment about the CERB. There are part-time workers who are working in two or three stores, getting minimum hours. Some workers would have made more money, frankly, sitting at home collecting $500 a week than working for a little over minimum wage for 15 hours a week. It's simple math. Did companies give a $2 pay increase for honourable reasons? They would publicly say so, but there's no question that in the back of their minds they were thinking, “How many of our employees will stay home and be better off?”
Those are the things that have to be taken into account, but as I said earlier on, Michelle, I think first of all the federal government should come out with a living minimum wage and put pressure on the provinces to follow suit.
Conservative
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
I think you made the point I was trying to drive at but couldn't quite figure out how to say. With the CERB, especially looking at how we design it going forward, is there an inadvertent design flaw such that retailers could use it to their advantage for profit, given the disruptions they were already experiencing and their drive towards automation? I find that such an interesting comment. I think it's something that we as a committee really need to consider.
The leaders here all represent workers, especially in the processing industry. We saw so many cases of COVID there. I'm from Alberta, and the meat processing plants in Alberta were a hotbed for this. The systems all tie into each other. How do we as parliamentarians come up with a set of cohesive recommendations for the broader food services industry as we look at a potential second wave of the virus in months to come?
National President, United Food and Commercial Workers Union Canada
I think what's really important in that regard is looking at the second wave.
We represent probably 90% of the people in the food and meat processing industry in Canada. We went through the situations at Cargill, JBS, Olymel in Quebec and a couple of Maple Leaf plants. I think the protocols that were....
I don't know if I have time to end my comments.
National President, United Food and Commercial Workers Union Canada
There are protocols in place that need to be consistently applied, and we have to look at the fact that people are going home to their families from the bread-and-butter jobs in food processing and retail. They interlock so much. People are going home to food processors or retail workers. That has to be watched very closely.
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sherry Romanado
Thank you very much.
We now turn to MP Jaczek. You have the floor for five minutes.
Liberal
Helena Jaczek Liberal Markham—Stouffville, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair. I'd like to thank all the witnesses for making their points so very clearly. I think we're well armed for Friday when, obviously, the big three are going to be with us.
In terms of your representation of the workers, who I think we've all come to understand are truly essential workers, what can we, as federal representatives on this committee, actually do? What kinds of recommendations can we make in terms of federal government activities?
I wanted to start with you, Mr. Meinema. You mentioned that you're at the bargaining table. There's some talk of national health and safety standards. Would you be able to elaborate a little bit on what you would like to see from a health and safety point of view?
National President, United Food and Commercial Workers Union Canada
Yes. Thank you very much.
From the health and safety point of view, early on in the process we forwarded to Minister Hajdu and Minister Tassi what needs to be done in both food processing and the retail food sector. They are good protocols, and I would say that union and non-union people alike have adopted some of them, but it's not consistent.
I think the federal government can help in both food processing and retailing, because there is money available. Whether it's CERB or money available to the retailers or money available to food processors to help them through COVID, they could clearly say that part of this process should be that we follow accepted and recommended guidelines consistently throughout the whole game. That, quite frankly, would save lives.
Liberal
Helena Jaczek Liberal Markham—Stouffville, ON
Thank you.
Mr. Dias, you've argued for a federal minimum wage, of course, and presumably an enhanced minimum wage. As you are aware, provinces set their own minimum wages. I just scanned what they are across Canada, and I was fairly appalled at how low they are.
Liberal
Helena Jaczek Liberal Markham—Stouffville, ON
It doesn't seem that any sort of federal leadership to date has influenced provinces to follow in any meaningful way.
How would you see that process going forward? Again, from our point of view as a committee, what kinds of tangible recommendations could you make that might be influential on provinces?
National President, Unifor
Well, first of all you have to lead by example. The fact that there is no federal minimum wage is a red light right there. I look at the workers at airports who suffered through contract flipping, such as the Swissport workers, who are suffering the same fate as it relates to scheduling and poor wages.
Ultimately, the federal government is going to have to say to the provinces that there has to be a broader study. There has to be a better bringing together of the minds and a discussion at the premiers' meeting, which the Prime Minister will address. We need to say, “Listen, we've just lived this, and these are the essential workers.” You can't have the Jason Kenneys of the world, and frankly, the Doug Fords, saying when they first come into power, “Look, the problem is we're open for business, so we have to freeze the minimum wage”, which, we now know, impacts the most vulnerable essential workers in society.
There has to be a broader discussion. There has to be a challenge from the Prime Minister to the premiers, saying, “What are you going to do about this?” This is a public discussion that's going on from coast to coast to coast. I believe that premiers who are now negatively impacting these essential workers are going to have one heck of a price to pay.
As for the argument about corporate tax cuts creating jobs, I think we've watched what's happened in Alberta. We're watching what's happening here in Ontario. I think everybody knows that those are sad old arguments that are going nowhere. The federal government has to lead by example.
Liberal
Helena Jaczek Liberal Markham—Stouffville, ON
Monsieur Lacroix, would you have some advice, again to the federal government specifically?
Director of Communications and Public Affairs (Quebec), Teamsters Canada
I feel that the moment is right, in the sense that Canadians are perfectly aware that improving working conditions in this industry is the right thing to do. People know how crucial and essential the role of grocery store workers is, not only for the Canadian economy, but also for the welfare of all Canadians.
If the federal government sets the example and demonstrates the leadership, provincial and territorial premiers will perhaps have no other choice but to follow suit. Canadians have understood what is happening and know that, without those workers, it would have been extremely difficult to confront the pandemic.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sherry Romanado
Thank you.
The floor now goes to Mr. Lemire, for two and a half minutes.
Bloc
Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Mr. Lacroix, here is the question I ask myself. Since the $2-an-hour increase during the COVID-19 crisis is a temporary measure, can it be said that a return to normal was something the employees you represent expected? Or has it created some frustration, even a feeling of injustice, because governments are still saying that the pandemic is not over?
Do you see that $2-an-hour increase as window dressing on the part of the industry or as a recognition of their workers?
Director of Communications and Public Affairs (Quebec), Teamsters Canada
I cannot say that it is window dressing. I feel that it is a recognition by the industry. However, removing it has created a huge amount of frustration.
We see it every day. The workers tell us so. They do not understand why they are risking their lives at the height of a pandemic. The pandemic is not over. I repeat, we are still in a pandemic, and there may well be a second wave this fall.
Consequently, we are in a situation today where the employers are taking away the money from the workers while the pandemic continues. So a level of exasperation is increasing; we can see it. Negotiations are starting left and right and we feel that the workers are more and more motivated to become active, to bang on the table. So, we will see how things firm up in the coming weeks.
One thing is for sure. I feel that the workers, the public, the government and the members of Parliament have understood. All my union comrades have the same point of view as I do on this matter. All that is left is for the companies to understand and to provide working conditions that are clearly superior to those they have at the moment.