Industry Committee on July 6th, 2020

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Good afternoon.

I call this meeting back to order. Welcome to meeting number 27 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Thursday, June 18, 2020, the committee is meeting on the subject of front-line grocery store workers.

Today's meeting is taking place by video conference, and the proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website.

I'd like to remind the members and the witnesses that, before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. When you are ready to speak, please unmute your microphone and then return to mute when you are finished speaking. When speaking, please speak slowly and clearly so that the translators can do their work.

Please make sure that your interpretation is on the language in which you are speaking.

As is my normal practice, I will hold up a yellow card for when you have 30 seconds left in your intervention, and I will hold up the red card for when your time has expired.

I will now like to welcome our witnesses. From Teamsters Canada, we have Stéphane Lacroix, director of communications and public affairs in Quebec; from Unifor, we have Jerry Dias, national president, Carolyn Wrice, president Local 597, and Gord Currie, president Local 414; and from the United Food and Commercial Workers Union Canada, we have Paul Meinema, national president.

Each witness will have five minutes to present followed by the rounds of questions.

With that, we will start with Mr. Lacroix.

You have five minutes.

[Stéphane Lacroix, Director of Communications and Public Affairs (Quebec), Teamsters Canada]

Good afternoon. Thank you for the invitation to participate in the House of Commons Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology.

First of all, a quick reminder about the Teamsters Union. We represent more than 125,000 workers in Canada in all industries that are crucial to the Canadian society. In the retail and grocery sector, we defend the interests of several thousand workers from one end of the country to the other.

For the Teamsters Union, the COVID-19 premium paid to grocery store workers was greatly appreciated. However, the withdrawal of this bonus sends a contradictory message to workers whose wages are largely insufficient to help them live and prosper.

Before I go any further in my reflections, I would like to take a little trip back in time to give you a quick snapshot of the situation in this industry. First, I must say that I worked in the industry for 11 years in the 1980s and 1990s. I held several positions and have fond memories of that time, but I knew very well that I wasn't going to make a career out of it. The salaries weren't bad when you went up the ladder, but the social benefits and pension plans weren't enough because I wanted to start a family and buy a house and a car. In short, this industry didn't allow me to realize my dreams.

For people of my generation, Generation X, working in grocery stores was also not highly valued. So I made the decision to go back to school. I was hired by the Teamsters, who increased my salary significantly, starting in my first year. This shows the difference between retail, grocery stores and the union world, of course.

Let's move forward now to the 2000s. At the time, I sat as a Teamsters Canada representative on the Canadian Food Industry Council, an organization made up of representatives of major grocery stores and unions. Our goal was to restore this industry's reputation in order to attract new talent.

The retention issues were exactly the same then as they were in the 1990s: inadequate salaries, poor promotion opportunities, low job value, an unattractive pension plan and inadequate group insurance. Here we are now in 2020, and the decision is made to withdraw the COVID-19 bonus from grocery store workers under the pretext that the pandemic is over, which is not the case, by the way.

It was recently pointed out to me that, now, it is not uncommon to observe that workers with more than 10 years of seniority earn barely more than minimum wage in Quebec. The example of one of our members comes to mind because, after more than 10 years of good and loyal service, she earns barely $14 an hour in a large grocery store chain. So I ask whether someone can live on $25,000 a year today, in 2020. I don't think so.

I have taken the time to take you on a 30-year journey back in time to make you understand that the issues we face in this industry are not limited to the COVID-19 bonus of $2 an hour. We all agree that the pandemic has highlighted how important these workers are to their fellow citizens. We believe that these men and women deserve better. We therefore recommend that premium be permanently integrated into salaries. We must also significantly improve pension plans and group insurance. These men and women have contributed a great deal to the well-being of the population, so I think we must return the favour.

Again, thank you for the invitation. I would be pleased to answer any questions you may have.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you very much.

We will now go to Unifor.

Mr. Dias, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Jerry Dias, National President, Unifor]

Good afternoon, Madam Chair and members of the committee. It's an honour to appear today before this committee to discuss the needy and the greedy. Hundreds of thousands of workers in the retail sector across this country have lost their $2 pandemic pay as a result of the greedy, namely Metro, Sobeys and of course Loblaws and Galen Weston, with his personal wealth of $8.7 billion. I want to say to Galen Weston that he should be ashamed of himself.

My name is Jerry Dias. I am the national president of Unifor, Canada's largest union in the private sector. Unifor represents 315,000 workers, including thousands on the front line in this pandemic. That includes transit workers, telecommunications workers, food processors, health care and long-term care workers and of course retail workers. More than 20,000 Unifor members work in supermarkets, pharmacies and food distribution centres across the country at Loblaws, Sobeys, Metro, Rexall and others.

I am joined today by Carolyn Wrice, a supermarket worker for Loblaws in St. John's and president of Unifor Local 597, and Gord Currie, a food warehouse worker in Toronto and president of Unifor Local 414. I speak for both Carolyn and Gord when I say our union is proud of the workers who bravely and selflessly stepped up during this pandemic. We want to thank this committee for taking quick action to pull together this hearing today.

It is a matter of national interest whether Canada's biggest retailers conspired to cut pandemic pay premiums for their workers. In March, I applauded these retailers for establishing enhanced pay protections for workers who were off sick or in quarantine. Shortly after, they unveiled wage enhancements that totalled about $2 extra per hour. This move made good sense. On the one hand, it recognized the enormous safety risks these workers were taking by going to work. On the other hand—and let's be frank here—it recognized that the majority of these workers earn very low wages. Who in their right mind would risk contracting COVID for, in some cases, $11.32 an hour?

The sad truth is that wages and benefits of retail workers have suffered a downward spiral over the past 30 years. At one point not long ago, a supermarket job was a ticket to the middle class. Now most supermarket work is part time. In some discount stores, for instance, 90% of all jobs are part time. These folks mostly earn minimum wage, and most minimum-wage workers are women. They have no set schedule and many can't access benefits.

Despite this, retailers are consolidating, getting richer. They're turning out record profits, increasing shareholder dividends and doling out huge executive bonuses. Last year alone, Loblaws, Empire and Metro together cranked out $2 billion in bottom-line, after-tax net profits. Loblaws CEO Sarah Davis took home $6.7 million in total compensation, yet front-line workers are barely scraping by. Some are working multiple jobs, and others are leaning on food banks. This is the tragedy underlying today's discussion.

Unfortunately, I can't provide you with any concrete proof of collusion, but to be candid, that's beside the point. This pandemic is not over. The number of COVID cases continues to mount for workers in essential retail shops and warehouses, including in Unifor. Just last week, Canada's public health officer told a Senate committee to be prepared for a “possible return” and “even bigger wave” of COVID at any time. Workers deserve better.

Do I think big grocers should reverse course and reinstate these pay premiums? Damn right I do. In fact, some smaller retailers have committed to keeping them in place. Do I think this fixes the rampant inequality in this industry? Absolutely not. What is needed is a permanent readjustment, a realignment of wages, equal pay, scheduling protections and access to benefits. I encourage you to consider this in your final report, and I encourage you to recommend a more sweeping committee study on declining working conditions in the retail industry.

I couldn't imagine us having this conversation a generation ago. What we're dealing with today is an outcome of neglect and lack of oversight. It is about declining work standards and inadequate labour laws. Let's not waste this moment to get at the heart of this problem.

Carolyn, Gord and I look forward to your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you very much, Mr. Dias.

Next we will move to Mr. Meinema.

You have the floor for five minutes.

[Paul Meinema, National President, United Food and Commercial Workers Union Canada]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

On behalf of the United Food and Commercial Workers, I want to thank the standing committee for the opportunity to share our perspective today, for your work on this subject, and for bringing further attention to this very important issue. As the union for Canada's grocery store workers, we certainly have a number of thoughts on this topic.

We're a private sector union that represents more than 160,000 grocery store workers across the country. We also represent a further 100,000 Canadians, and folks aspiring to become Canadians, who work in many other key sectors and other industries.

As our name suggests, the majority of our membership is directly connected to the food sector. To make a long story short, UFCW members work hard, day in and day out, to proudly feed Canadians. As the national leader of Canada's food workers union, I am both proud and concerned that our members have continued to do what they have always done throughout this current pandemic.

Despite the clear and present risks to themselves and their families, UFCW members have stepped up. They've stepped up like the front-line work heroes that they've always been, to help their neighbours, their country, and all of us get through this difficult time.

As a result, hundreds of UFCW Canada members have fallen ill. And yes, some have died, including a father of four, a beloved grandmother and a young cashier with her whole life still ahead of her.

If the current pandemic has resulted in one positive for our front-line workers, it is the recognition that they are now receiving for the crucial work that they are doing, from the general public, from public officials such as yourselves and from the Prime Minister, no less.

This recognition of grocery workers is certainly welcome, but quite frankly, it is overdue.

For food workers, the premium pay is appreciated from a financial standpoint, but it's also an important symbol. It represents a heightened level of respect and acknowledgement that has long eluded this industry and the hard-working people who make it possible.

As their union, we are extremely disappointed in the decisions by Canada's largest retailers and other food companies to cancel these premiums. It doesn't make sense to cancel pandemic pay when we are still experiencing a pandemic situation. More than that, it's simply not fair.

In response, the UFCW has filed grievances over this issue. We have launched a national campaign to engage the public over the cancellation of pandemic pay. We are currently at the bargaining table with our major employers to negotiate the wage increases that these food workers so desperately deserve.

The fact of the matter is that this so-called "premium pay" must become permanent. Every Canadian has a vested interest in making sure that food workers are treated and compensated fairly.

That said, I must add that safeguarding the health and safety of our UFCW Canada members and their families is a top priority. We're calling on both unionized and non-unionized food employers to adopt the set of standards that we have detailed with the industry and the federal government. We've made some progress on this front, but there is still much to do. I would be happy to provide this information to the members of the committee.

While we welcome these hearings, I am curious as to why only Canadian grocers have been called to give presentations. I think the public would benefit from hearing from the huge transnationals that operate in this space and cancelled their premiums a long time earlier.

I would conclude my remarks by suggesting that greater corporate responsibility is only a part of the solution here. Broader action from all levels of government, and legislative and policy reforms that strike a better balance between grocery workers and their corporate leaders are just as essential.

Thank you, Madam Chair, and honourable members of this committee. It will be my pleasure to answer any of your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you very much.

We'll now move to our round of questions.

MP Rempel Garner, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

I'll be directing my questions to all the witnesses.

I'll just start by saying that this might be a rare day, I hope, when Conservative MPs and union leaders can agree on things. I have to say, in watching this unfold, that we are asking ourselves a fairly significant question as a country right now, which is, how do we pay people who are providing food to a population that's on lockdown during the middle of the pandemic when we're asking people to put themselves and their families in danger of the very thing that we're locking ourselves out against?

I don't think we've answered that question very well, frankly. I have to commend my colleague Mr. Erskine-Smith for taking the initiative on this particular study, because we have to get this right.

I'm going to start my questions just by asking some exploratory “what happened” questions from your perspective. I know that in the middle of April my colleagues and I put out a statement calling upon the government to issue, at bare minimum, guidelines for personal protective equipment for various industries across the country so that they could be part of the planning process for distribution and prioritization of PPE.

Were you contacted by the government, as union leaders, at any point over the last couple of months in terms of developing guidelines and/or suggesting standards by which employers should be providing PPE or PPE-secured environments for workers in the grocery sector?

Maybe I'll start with Mr. Dias.

[Jerry Dias]

First of all, Michelle, thank you very much for your question. You're right, it's at times like this that I'm pleased there are moderate Conservatives who are looking at a discussion about workers as opposed to profits.

On the question of whether the government been in contact with me or the leadership about the issue of personal protective equipment for retail workers, the answer is no. The facts are, when the pandemic hit, as a nation we were caught, literally, completely unprepared because we outsource all of our security.

When it came to the distribution of personal protective equipment, it was really broken down in chronological order, where you started with doctors and nurses and then worked your way down the health care system, where PSWs were last. Then grocery store workers and others who were deemed essential workers came afterwards. As it came to the distribution of personal protective equipment, grocery store workers, unfortunately, were down on the totem pole.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Maybe, just for time's sake, I'll just stick with you, Mr. Dias.

Are you finding right now that most of your workers are having to provide their PPE at their own cost or is it being provided, in the context of grocery store workers, by the corporations?

[Jerry Dias]

No, the masks, clearly, and much of the protective equipment are being provided now by the employers, but it was incredibly difficult in the beginning because of the raw shortage.

I think you'll find that one of the ironies of this is, as you walk into a Sobeys, Metro or Loblaws, they're now giving everybody who walks in masks, understanding that the pandemic is still alive and well. Yet they, as CEOs, behave otherwise.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

The other thing is—I'm just going to quote from the article—that Loblaws is saying it is going to spend $25 million on a one-time bonus for workers. The calculation is approximately $140 per person for workers on a full-time schedule, according to your estimate. I guess I'll just give you a chance to expound on that. Do you think that's adequate compensation for the situation some of the workers have been put in over the last several months?

[Jerry Dias]

No, first of all, it's absolutely ridiculous. We would never agree to end the pandemic pay. We have never agreed to a minuscule lump sum.

The reality is that the pandemic is alive and well. If you look at the grocery stores, their profits have increased significantly during the pandemic. If you take a look at their income from 2019 to 2020, it went up during the pandemic. Once again, this is strictly about greed.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

I know the government is looking at the structure of the CERB, and you mentioned that many workers are in part-time situations. Are you hearing anything anecdotally from your labour force, the people you represent, saying they can only earn up to $1,000; they're not getting PPE; they're in what they feel is a really dangerous situation; and they're not going to work? They're going to take the CERB. Are you hearing that, and what recommendation would you make in that scenario?

[Jerry Dias]

First of all, I will argue one of the main reasons they gave the $2 is that it would have been more beneficial for workers to be on the CERB than go to work, but they went to work out of their commitment.

The $2 can't go away. That's strictly it, but the recommendations have to be more full-time jobs, better pay. This whole precarious part-time non-standard is ridiculous.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Okay. Is there anything else you want to say on this in the last 10 seconds I have on this number one recommendation?

[Jerry Dias]

The number one recommendation has to be to make sure full-time jobs are coming out of this sector. There has to be an easier mechanism for workers to organize.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Our next questioner in MP Jowhari for six minutes.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'd like to start by specifically thanking all the union members, all the grocery and retail store employees who helped keep the stores open and active and put themselves and their families on the front line as we pulled back and stayed home. We wanted to make sure we also had food security. I'm glad we managed to be able to give them the benefit, however short-lived.

I want to thank them on my behalf and on behalf of all my team members as well as our government. Your members were instrumental in getting us through to this stage, and I'm sure they'll remain instrumental.

Having said that, I've heard a lot about the pandemic not being over, so why is that pandemic acknowledgement fee of $2 per hour being cut back?

I'm going to start by reading a statement that came from Loblaws' chief executive officer, and I'd like to get some feedback from all of you about why they would make the statement, if we believe the pandemic is not over.

The statement from July 11, 2020, from Loblaws' chief executive officer reads:

Finally, as the economy slowly reopens and Canadians begin to return to work, we believe it is the right time to end the temporary pay premium we introduced at the beginning of the pandemic. Things have now stabilized in our supermarkets and drug stores. After extending the premium multiple times, we are confident our colleagues are operating safely and effectively in a new normal.

I'm going to pause. I don't want to read the rest because I want to give you an opportunity.

Mr. Dias, let's start with you. Do you believe the pandemic is now over, and if it's not, what indicators are you using? I'm aware of it. I still wear a mask and I know the pandemic is not over and some provinces are at stage two, but how could a statement like that be made, that we are getting back to normal?

[Jerry Dias]

First of all, it's an irresponsible statement by those who know better. They know the number of employees who are still sick. They know of their employees, but let me talk about mine. Right now we have over 20 workers in the supermarkets and over 15 in the warehouses who are off sick with COVID-19. So the first thing they have to do is tell those 35-plus families that somehow everything is over, because we know it's not.

The comments were strictly based on finance, strictly based on greed. It wasn't scientific. I think they're spending too much time watching Fox TV and listening to Donald Trump. The bottom line is it was an irresponsible statement not backed by any scientific proof. Science is telling us we're in trouble.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Were any of the unions or your members consulted, that the pandemic was over as far as the owners were concerned, or did you just hear it like the rest of us?

[Jerry Dias]

No, I heard it like the rest of you. Ultimately, when they moved forward to cut the pandemic pay, we had a hell of a lot to say to them, but it was completely non-negotiable. They wouldn't talk to us about it. They made the decision.

We spent a lot of time, in fairness, talking to them about health and safety, about the different procedures and protocols that are in place within our respective workplaces. However, when it came to the pandemic pay, there was no consultation with our union at all.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Okay.

Mr. Paul Meinema, from United Food and Commercial, do you want to add something?

[Paul Meinema]

[Technical difficulty—Editor] of the summaries is very accurate. There's no doubt that the pandemic is not over. I would just like to add a couple of significant issues.

We were contacted by Loblaws to say they were going to end the pandemic pay. We were adamantly opposed to ending the pandemic pay. We made as many issues of it as we could.

We also reminded them of the 20 protocols that UFCW Canada was able to put together. We were able to put them together because we are an international union. We called on the best standards from our colleagues and unions in Europe and in South America, and all of these issues would indicate that the pandemic is still ongoing and that pandemic pay should not go.

UFCW's call and letter to the employers at the beginning of April.... The letter was also shared with the government, with Minister Tassi and Minister Hajdu. We did speak with Minister Tassi on the issue. In the letter, there are 20 protocols that we asked to be put in place for all retail food stores, for all retailers. One of the points on there is very clear that the pandemic pay must stay, must become permanent and must be increased.