Industry Committee on Aug. 14th, 2020

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thank you very much to all the esteemed witnesses we've had the opportunity to hear from today.

I'll start with Professor Ratto with the University of Toronto. Professor Ratto, I want to pick up where MP Lambropoulos had actually started asking you a question. You talked at length about how innovation takes place in settings that can be atypical or other mechanisms. Given your passion for seeing collaboration between universities and communities, what would you say would be the implications for universities making sure they can be capable of harnessing closer collaboration with their surrounding communities?

[Prof. Matt Ratto]

I really think universities could do better to support and value forms of research that result in direct community outcomes. As we've heard already from other colleagues of mine in the university system, community collaboration is something that is highly valued in the university. I think it is, but I think the direct outcomes that are related to it are not necessarily valued.

I would love to see universities focusing on those relations and on outcomes in the same way that universities increasingly provide specific support for entrepreneurship and innovation within private business. Setting up, for example, specific hubs or resources on campus for faculty and communities to meet and engage together in creating real-world...or as Mr. Masse said, getting to the “streets” of the research, I think, would be of great benefit.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Thank you.

Is there any university that sticks out, in your opinion, in terms of doing a good job of benchmarking these things and encouraging its faculty and students to do so?

[Prof. Matt Ratto]

Not any university in Canada, I'm afraid to say. I think there are universities in the U.S. that are privileged in having long histories of those relationships and focused, oftentimes, on creating student experiences as well that are really about creating public good, often through things like engineering programs that focus on real-world impacts. One that I can think of off the top of my head is Olin College. It's a small engineering college that is very much focused on public outcomes.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Thank you very much for that.

Now, I'll turn to another issue, Mr. Landon, if I could. We've been hearing that there's a huge spike in the number of domestic students who intend to actually defer for this academic year. Do you have any sense as to what those numbers are and what the impact would be on Canadian universities?

[Philip Landon]

We don't have a real sense. I would say the concern for that was actually happening a little earlier. As far as we see now, enrolment figures for domestic students are levelling up quite nicely, but it was a concern at the beginning of the year.

I think a lot of what happened in the summer semester was that students decided they could go. I think all of us have been in the situation of “What's going to happen over the next three months?” We're a little less concerned about that. There still is the challenge of students wanting to defer, potentially, for a year or to take only a few courses, but as I said earlier, it's hard for us to measure that until all the enrolment numbers come in, which will probably be around October.

Right now, for domestic students, the numbers are okay. They vary in interesting ways that they didn't before. In Ontario, for example, we have some schools that are oversubscribed and some schools that are undersubscribed compared with previous years. I don't want to speculate too much as to why that is, but the overall enrolment for domestic students seems as if it's going to be reasonably healthy this year.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

I open it to other witnesses.

Dr. McCauley, what has been the experience at your university? To the extent that there are students deferring, what would be the impact on the bottom line of your university?

[Dr. Ed McCauley]

We haven't experienced that so far. We have mechanisms in place that allow students to defer, even if they start the program, to make sure they can continue.

One of the challenges that universities are facing is that they have to plan for all of these contingencies. We're planning for increased domestic enrolment; we're planning for decreased domestic enrolment, yet our costs are relatively fixed for that. One of the challenges we're facing is the uncertainty and how we can move forward productively to ensure a great student experience.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Mr. Simard, over to you. You have two and a half minutes.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I have a question for Mr. Martel and Ms. Fusaro about partnership-based research. It's a fact that, in times of economic downturn, the first thing companies usually forgo is investing in research.

Given how many research studies are carried out in partnership with companies and given how much that investment represents—in some cases, it can be a third of the entire budget of a research program—do you know of any projects that are at risk because of the current situation? What could the government do to support partnership-based research, in particular?

[Magda Fusaro]

Mr. Simard, you're absolutely right. In fact, the federal and provincial granting agencies set up emergency funding to ease the stress temporarily.

You brought up research that's carried out in partnership with industry and companies. To that, I would add research that's carried out in partnership with government. Governments are a major research partner.

Earlier, my counterpart from Toronto mentioned face shields. We, too, produced masks for public distribution using 3-D printers. My colleague from Abitibi can give you other examples. We contributed to the response effort, and I should say that we made the masks available for free. It wasn't even a burden. We were happy we could help the community at large, which really needed it.

Giving out money is one thing, but making grants available over the long term is extremely important. A grant has a start and an end date. A fundamental step would be for the government to give researchers subsidy extensions penalty-free, since COVID-19 prevented universities from carrying out research. That would be an option.

Another idea is to put measures in place for students because research is team-driven. The principal investigator isn't the only one working on the research project; there's an entire team of second-year, third-year and post-doctoral students, not to mention research colleagues.

Mr. Martel, my apologies for taking up so much time. Go ahead if you have something to add.

[Denis Martel]

Partnership-based research is indeed crucial. That's true for all universities, but especially in rural areas, where we work with organizations that can be large companies.

In our region, it's mining. Because the sector is booming, it just renewed a research partnership agreement for the next seven years in the midst of the COVID-19 crisis. The price of gold these days says it all. It's going up, up, up. Other sectors, however, are having more trouble, such as forestry and agriculture, so it depends on the sector.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you very much.

We now turn to MP Masse.

You have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I don't want to ignore the other witnesses, but I will pick just one for now. Mr. Martel was speaking, so I'll go to him next. If we have any time left, I'd invite Ms. Fusaro and Mr. McCauley to quickly jump in as well.

I'm wondering what your personal opinion is in terms of the quality of education when we get through this, and how the private and public sectors will view a degree during COVID-19, since most stuff is going online. I'm just curious to know whether you've thought about that.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[Denis Martel]

Our region stretches over a vast area and has low population density, so it was out of necessity that we began providing distance education nearly 40 years ago. We had to so that everyone could access our programs. We are known for our high-quality training, not just in the region, but also across Quebec, around the world, even, given the collaborative initiatives we've established all over. I see no issues, as far as we're concerned, since we already have the expertise. It's tougher for institutions that were forced to respond more swiftly. The strength of the Université du Québec system is that the institutions pool and share best practices and methods. I can assure you we have the capacity to deliver high-quality training remotely and in ways that do not rely on classroom learning.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

I don't know if there's time left, but Ms. Fusaro—

[Dr. Ed McCauley]

We offer a lot of online degree programs. One thing to emphasize, though, is that everybody recognizes that the Canadian experience is very, very important. Having students coming from the world to Canada and having students coming from different parts of Canada in order to experience all of Canada is really, really important as part of the Canadian experience. There are huge discussions about the commodification of education around the world, but I think what we value is the Canadian experience.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you.

Ms. Fusaro, you have time for a quick answer.

[Magda Fusaro]

I think my colleague covered everything. If there's anything I could add, it would have to do with relevance, but I think everything's been mentioned. You're right when you talk about students coming to Canada. We have many of them coming to the country, especially Quebec. We are fortunate to have a varied and diverse student population. We need to keep welcoming them because what they have to offer benefits us all.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you very much. That is the end of our third round.

I'd like to thank all of the witnesses for being with us today. There was excellent testimony with great questions today. I think this will really help us in terms of our report on the government's response to the COVID-19 pandemic. Thank you very much for your assistance in that regard.

That ends our time for today.

I now call this meeting adjourned.