Industry Committee on Nov. 24th, 2020

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Minister.

Ms. Joly, the federal government provided funding for community-based organizations, as well as the cultural, innovation and environmental sectors. That falls under the mandate of CFDCs.

Aren't CFDCs the best ones to deliver that initiative and further support stakeholders in those sectors as they develop their projects?

When will you be able to enhance the funding specifically for the community, cultural, innovation and environmental sectors?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

Thank you for your questions, Mr. Lemire. I would be happy to answer.

It goes without saying that CFDCs play an important role. That is why, since taking office, our government has quadrupled the funding for CFDCs, which now totals more than $120 million.

Our investments have better equipped CFDCs to fulfill their role, and that will be one of the positive legacies of the pandemic. We can certainly have fruitful discussions with the CFDC network to determine how we can expand their reach, not just economically, as you mentioned, but also at the community level. I welcome the opportunity to discuss that with them, as well as with you.

As we gradually emerge from the pandemic, we want to support green and inclusive growth through the economic recovery, and CFDCs definitely have a role to play.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you, Minister.

Our next round of questions goes to MP Bachrach. You have the floor for six minutes.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you to the ministers for the opportunity to ask some questions. I'm sitting in for Mr. Masse, who has to be in the House right now. He's provided with me some questions, but I'd like to ask some questions of Minister Bains with regard to rural broadband.

The region that I represent in northwest B.C. is profoundly rural, with very small communities and many people living in remote settings. I was very interested in this report on telecommunications that was completed back in January. I believe you're familiar with it. I think the title is “Canada's Communications Future: Time to Act”. There's a portion in it under the broadband section, and I'll read it.

It says, “Further, despite the many programs working toward the goal of universal connectivity at the federal level, no Minister is specifically accountable to Parliament for the achievement of this objective.”

I asked this question of Minister McKenna at the infrastructure committee. She went on about coordination and a bunch of other stuff. I did ask her if she was in charge, and so I will extend the same question to you. Are you in charge of accountability and delivering on the promise that 98% of Canadians are going to have broadband by 2026?

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

Thank you very much for your question.

With regard to accountability and responsibility, it's important to note there are several ministers who have different initiatives and programs. We're coordinating with one another. It's a whole-of-government approach.

We recognize that we have different levers and different abilities to have a positive impact. We're using all the necessary resources we need to make sure that we deal with the connectivity issue. We're leaving no stone unturned.

That is why I'm very proud of the fact that when my colleague Minister Monsef announced the universal broadband fund, I also was able to highlight our support for low-earth orbit satellite solutions, which are critical for those remote northern communities, to deal with the latency issue. This technology enables these satellites, which are only about 2,000 kilometres away from the earth's surface, to provide that high-speed Internet connectivity.

We think we have a range of solutions and a range of programs to deal with this. We're focused now on implementation and dealing with that digital divide. As you alluded to in your question, right now more than ever, Canadians need access to high-speed Internet connectivity because they're working online and learning online more than they ever have before. This is essential for their success.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Well, Minister, through the chair, I didn't hear the answer to my question in there. I guess that the only minister left to ask is Minister Monsef. I look forward to doing so at the earliest opportunity.

Could I ask if you recognize this deficiency that's been highlighted in this report? I can read further. It says:

...there are a number of different programs and funds addressing gaps in broadband coverage.... At the federal level, there is potential duplication of effort among the CRTC, ISED, and other government departments.

It speaks specifically to the fact that there is no single minister specifically accountable for these promises. Do you agree this is a problem in achieving the objectives?

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

I think it's absolutely essential to recognize that different ministers in different departments have different tools and levers and programs at their disposal. We need to leverage everything to the fullest potential. This is why it's a whole-of-government approach. We are focused on coordinating with one another.

I do recognize that we have stepped up in a big way by not only introducing programs but also by providing the resources. The universal broadband fund is $1.75 billion. The low-earth orbit satellite constellation service access is $600 million. These are significant amounts that will enable us to achieve the goal of high-speed Internet connectivity in rural and remote communities. We're going to continue to coordinate and work with one another. I take pride in working with Minister Monsef, Minister McKenna and others who understand the importance of high-speed Internet connectivity.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I appreciate that, Minister. The problem is that when no one is in charge, there can be no accountability. I look forward to asking Minister Monsef if she is in charge of this file.

My other question around rural broadband is really around the approach. Essentially, the approach we have right now is that there's a pool of money made available by the federal government. The federal government looks to private companies to come forward with proposals for serving rural residents with broadband. Those proposals are always proposals in which the company can put together a viable business case. However, there are many sparsely populated areas in which it is extremely difficult to put together a business case.

How are we going to serve those residents in sparsely populated remote areas where it's difficult to put together a profitable model for delivering broadband?

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

There are two components to your question that I will speak to. Again, I just want to underscore the fact that the ISED department shares the working group with the different departments and ministers to coordinate the efforts around rural connectivity. That is leadership, that is accountability, and that is why I'm here to answer your questions.

The model....

Oh, I see the red card.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Unfortunately, you're over your time, Minister.

I will remind members that when I show you the 30-second card, it means you do not have time to start asking a lengthy question. I do not want to cut people off at the end of this meeting.

With that, I will go to the second round.

MP Steinley, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thank you to the ministers who are present today. I'll be sending my questions in the direction of Minister Joly.

First I want to thank Mr. Duguid and Minister Joly for giving me a glimpse into the psyche of Liberals when talking about western Canada. It's a rare opportunity when I can see two Liberal members have that discussion.

Minister Joly, you were very happy about saving 23,000 jobs in western Canada—except, prior to COVID-19, Alberta and western Canada lost almost 200,000 jobs, so it's really like cheering in a hockey game after scoring your first goal, but you're still down 10 to one.

That's something you guys should keep in mind. Before COVID-19, there was a double whammy in western Canada. It was called Bill C-69 and Bill C-48, the no-more-pipelines bill and the anti-tanker bill. As well, the carbon tax has continued to cripple our economy. You increase the carbon tax every April 1, which is a terrible April Fool's joke on western Canadians.

I'm going to focus some of my question towards the regional economic growth through innovation program. In the estimates now, the spending was supposed to be $631,000,726. It combines southern Ontario, Quebec, western diversification and northern Ontario economic diversification. I'm wondering if there's a complete list of programs that this has funded and if you could table that with the committee.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

Well, thank you, dear colleague. It is a pleasure for me to have the chance to talk to you, for the first time directly, about what we're doing for the west.

Obviously I've had the chance to talk to many business people in the west, including the different members of the Alberta chambers of commerce, the Calgary and Edmonton chambers of commerce, the Saskatchewan chambers of commerce, the Saskatoon and the Regina chambers of commerce, the Manitoba chambers of commerce, the Winnipeg chamber of commerce, and the same for B.C. Clearly, I'm very much aware of not only the anxiety that is going through people in the west, many of whom live off the fossil fuel sector; I'm very much aware that the reality is also different in British Columbia.

Since the beginning of our mandate, we've done a lot in the regional economic development file to support Western Economic Diversification. It had been cut by $50 million under the Harper government, which was sad, as the west was already going through a difficult time. We increased the budget before the pandemic. That was under the responsibility of my dear colleague Nav Bains, who is here with us. As well, now we've doubled the budget of Western Economic Diversification.

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Thank you very—

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

Do we need to do more? We need to do more.

It will be a pleasure for me to be working with you. Of course, we will table the documentation that you're asking for.

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Thank you very much, Madam Minister.

Do you know that record spending isn't a government policy goal and that it should be something whereby you're creating jobs, not just spending more money?

To the original question, can I have a list, through this committee, please, of all the programs done through the regional economic growth through innovation program?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

Of course it is important for us to be providing that information for you as members of the opposition, but also to the public.

I know my esteemed public servants are on this call. Simon Kennedy, my deputy minister, is with us, as well as the CFO for ISED. Of course we will be providing that information.

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Thank you very much.

In the revised estimates, there's going to be $200 million more spent through this program. Could I also get an update for this committee on that extra $200 million?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

The idea of supporting more businesses came about because what we saw through Western Economic Diversification was that there was really an uptake in the program. Many businesses needed more support, more than in other parts of the country. That's why we increased the budget, and therefore we've been providing more money to Western Economic Diversification than other agencies to deal with some of the backlog that we were facing. That's why there's more money and that's why we'll be providing—

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Thank you so much. I have one more quick question.

Is there a connection between the regional economic growth through innovation program and the RRRF program?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Mr. Steinley, unfortunately you're out of time. Hopefully in another round the minister will be able to answer that question.

We now turn to MP Lambropoulos.

You have the floor for five minutes.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

My questions are for Minister Bains.

Mr. Bains, thank you for being here today to answer our questions.

As you know, the committee is studying the accessibility and affordability of broadband connectivity and wireless Internet service. On the issue of affordability, you clearly stated that Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada intended to lower the rates for cell phone service by 25%. That is excellent news because Canadians pay the highest rates for cell phone service in the world.

Could you provide some detail on how you measure progress in that area? Could you also tell us about the tools the department uses to promote affordability?

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

Thank you for your question.

You are right. Having a strategy to reduce cell phone plan prices is absolutely essential, and that is why we put forward a plan. Three months in, we discussed the progress that had been made and we shared that information. As time goes on, I hope the situation improves in every region of the country.

As you mentioned, we also have the connect to innovate program, which aims to provide access to high-speed Internet service. I wanted the government to have a strategy, so I am working with my fellow ministers, Maryam Monsef and Catherine McKenna, to that end. I am certain that, working together, we will find the solutions that will make things better for all Canadians.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you.

Can you talk about the role of the government, broadly, and of your department, specifically, in improving access to high-speed Internet service? What more can we do to help Canadians?

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

There are a few elements to your question.

I think it's important to note that we need to have more competition and more choice. That is why we've used this spectrum auction as a means to create carve-outs for regional players. This will enable more competition, which will reduce the prices. We've had a very clear strategy when it comes to 600 megahertz, 3,500 megahertz, or the 3,800 that we're currently in consultations for. All demonstrate the importance of using spectrum strategically to promote more competition. We believe this will help reduce prices.

When it comes to cellphone prices, we have a quarterly report that tracks the mid-range plans. We've seen, traditionally, some reduction in prices in the lower-end plans and some in the higher-end plans, but for those mid-range plans the prices were not going down, were not decreasing. We set a very clear target of making sure that between the two- to six-gigabyte space, those plans should go down by 25%.

For greater accountability and transparency, we're providing quarterly updates and quarterly reports to Canadians to demonstrate progress in different regions across the country when it comes to those cellphone plans. We feel that's putting pressure onto the marketplace for the telecommunication companies to deliver on that. They recognize that if they fail to do so, we will deploy other tools to promote more competition. Right now we're starting to see some progress in that area. We're confident that in the coming months Canadians will see a further reduction in their cellphone bills because, again, of our focus on competition and choice, as well as greater transparency with the quarterly reports that Canadians can go online to see.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you very much.

We actually met with the telecom companies a little bit earlier on, during the summer. They seemed quite reluctant—I have to be honest—to reduce their prices. They were saying that if we expect them to increase Internet access, we should lower our expectations. What's your response to this?