Industry Committee on Nov. 24th, 2020

[Éric Dagenais]

Yes, I checked, and they think we've received a couple, but they hadn't even opened them when I checked this morning. They are starting to come in, and there's certainly a lot of interest by a number of ISPs to send in applications under the rapid response stream.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Okay, thank you for that. Perhaps we can circle back at some point in the future to determine how many applications do come in on that and how quickly those are all turned around.

One of the concerns that we've had in the past is that a lot of the funding will get eaten up by the major telecoms. In the review of these projects, will there be consideration focusing on the smaller independent Internet service providers in providing funding through the rapid stream program?

[Simon Kennedy]

Just as a general reflection, we're very conscious of that as a concern that parliamentarians and communities have. That's something we can certainly pay attention to.

We would certainly envisage projects that would be supported by the large telcos. Indeed, some of the very large projects typically would have a larger telecom provider, but there are also a lot of projects that are advanced by smaller organizations and smaller communities. Those are very important too. I think you're likely to see some mix, but we're alive to that as a concern that people have.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Great. Thank you for that. To that end as well, what sort of consideration is being provided in the adjudication process to a regional approach, in terms of ensuring that the different regions of the country all benefit from not only the rapid stream but also the universal broadband fund?

[Simon Kennedy]

I think the objective with the funds that have been put in place today is to cover, for all intents and purposes, the entire country, except for the areas that are extraordinarily difficult to reach, that remaining 2%. I think at the end of the day the objective is going to be, in effect, to make sure every region gets covered. The limiting factor will be some of those very, very remote areas that might require a satellite or some other kind of technology.

In terms of speed, I think we want to go as quickly as possible. As for how exactly that breaks out region by region, I must admit that I don't have that at my fingertips. Maybe Mr. Dagenais could give a reflection on the issue of regional allocation, but in a way, that's not really how the program's running, because we want to actually do the whole country.

[Éric Dagenais]

As Mr. Kennedy said, with a 98% connectivity target, no region will be left behind. I think it's mathematically impossible. As long as there are good projects, no region will be left behind.

In terms of speed, a lot of that will be determined by the applications we get. Of course, if we have two applications that come in for the same region with similar technologies, but one is proposing to go a lot faster, we will see. We will allocate bonus points, if you will, to that, and the minister may choose to select that project on the basis that it can go faster. It's one consideration.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Thank you for that. When you say the minister will choose, which minister are we talking about, in that sense?

[Éric Dagenais]

Minister Monsef is responsible for adjudicating on the universal broadband fund projects.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

To that end as well, will Minister Monsef be signing any contribution agreements with the proponents?

[Éric Dagenais]

Contribution agreements are actually usually signed by public officials, but after the minister has selected the project.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

I think I have time for one brief question.

As of February of this year, there were a few outstanding applications to the Connect to Innovate program that had not yet been adjudicated four years on.

Have those since been adjudicated?

[Éric Dagenais]

All the projects for the Connect to Innovate program have been selected. There are a couple that may be outstanding as a result of a recent project being pulled back in Manitoba. Everywhere else, they've been selected.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you, Mr. Dagenais. We'll now turn to MP Jowhari.

You have the floor for five minutes.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll be splitting my time with MP Erskine-Smith.

I have a quick question for Mr. Kennedy.

Mr. Kennedy, the main estimates indicate that ISED is requesting about $742 million for the SIF program, the strategic innovation fund. This is about $170 million more than the previous year and double the amount from two years ago.

I looked at the website. It talks about the program's having announced 65 projects and $2 billion in contributions and says it has created and maintained about 67,000 jobs.

Can you tell me how much of this fund is left, out of the original fund, and what the $169 million being asked for is focused on?

[Simon Kennedy]

Madam Chair, I shall probably have to get back to the honourable member with a table or something. Money has been provided to that program for medical countermeasures as part of the response to COVID-19, and there's funding in there for other projects—automotive is an example that one member mentioned.

It will be very difficult, I think, to just do the accounting out of my head, but I'm very happy to come back to the member with a chart or table.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Okay.

I believe the original fund was about $2.5 billion. Given that $2 billion has been used, are we stating that about $500 million is left and that we are asking for another $170 million on top of that?

[Simon Kennedy]

Well, Madam Chair, the strategic innovation fund amalgamated.... It's a new fund, but it took over, if you like, a number of existing previous programs.

The fund consists of both permanent funding and time-limited funding. When the government has an urgent priority, the government can provide money in on a time-limited basis. There's thus ongoing permanent money and temporary money.

You can't really think of the fund as though there was an initial amount and that we draw it down and it gets to zero. There's actually a recurring amount every year that is added as part of its base budget.

I'd have to come back, I think, to the committee with a table or something that gives a bit more detail on what the long-term picture looks like.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Okay. Thank you.

I yield the rest of my time to my colleague.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Thanks, Majid.

While 95% of Canadians in the highest income quartile are connected, just 62% in the lowest income quartile have Internet access. In March 2018 the CRTC concluded that there was a gap in the wireless market for lower-cost data-only plans.

Unfortunately, I think what they're really looking at is very low data amounts. Have you and your team looked instead at ensuring that Canadians have access to, say, two-gigabyte or three-gigabyte plans, data only, at a very low cost?

[Simon Kennedy]

Madam Chair, as part of the work we've done on affordability, we have certainly taken a pretty close look at all the plans in the market.

I believe my colleague Mark Schaan, who is one of the assistant deputy ministers in strategic and innovation policy and who played a key role in telecom policy, might be able to speak to this in more detail.

I don't know whether Mark is available. I believe he is.

[Mark Schaan, Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategy and Innovation Policy Sector, Department of Industry]

Thanks, Mr. Kennedy. Thank you, Madam Chair.

We scanned across all plans. Obviously, the wireless commitment looked at two-, four- and five-gig plans as one of the services in which we were looking for prices to be reduced by 25%.

We have been tracking those prices as part of the overall effort to look at prices writ large. We look, then, at all of those price plans and have continued to monitor and track them.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Okay, thanks.

I guess I have three suggestions, with limited time.

One is to really lean into low-cost data-only plans. There is a gap. CRTC has recognized it, but we haven't filled the gap yet.

Two is that in Toronto at least, TCHC, our largest social housing provider, offers an example whereby, through the connecting families program, we could extend that program by working with large social housing providers through bulk purchase agreements. I encourage you to connect with TCHC and look into that.

The third is that when it comes to living at home, in many cases we're paying for significant unused data. Other countries ensure that unused data is rolled over into future months. I would encourage you to look at that option.

My last simple question is on the wholesale rate issue. Cable carriers refused to provide company-specific information to the CRTC.

Mr. Kennedy, are you confident that they are providing that company-specific information? If not, what are we going to do about it?

[Simon Kennedy]

Madam Chair, I think that probably is a question that has to be directed to the CRTC, given its role and given that it is kind of in the middle of these proceedings, so maybe I will just make that suggestion.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

I appreciate that, but if they don't provide it, then let's not let them get away with it, as far as it goes.

Thanks, Mr. Kennedy.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you very much.

With that, we'll now turn to MP Lemire.

Mr. Lemire, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.