Evidence of meeting #123 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was aluminum.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Simon Kennedy  Deputy Minister, Department of Industry
Mark Schaan  Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategy and Innovation Policy Sector, Department of Industry

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound

Good evening, everyone.

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 123 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Industry and Technology.

Today's meeting is taking place in hybrid format, pursuant to the Standing Orders.

Before we begin, I would like to remind all members and participants of the following important preventive measures. In order to prevent disruptive and potentially harmful audio feedback incidents that could cause injuries, all in-person participants are reminded to keep their earpieces away from all microphones at all times.

As indicated in the communiqué from the Speaker to all members on Monday, April 29, 2024, the following measures have been taken to help prevent audio feedback incidents.

All earpieces have been replaced by a model that significantly reduces the likelihood of audio feedback.

The new earpieces are black, whereas the old ones were grey.

Please use only the approved black earpieces. By default, all unused earpieces will be unplugged at the start of a meeting.

When you are not using your earpiece, please place it face down in the middle of the sticker on the table, as shown in the image there.

Please refer to the cards on the table for guidelines on preventing audio feedback incidents.

Finally, the room layout has been adjusted, as you can see, to increase the distance between microphones and reduce the risk of feedback caused by an ambient earpiece.

These measures are in place so that we can carry out our activities without interruption and, of course, to protect the health and safety of all participants, including the interpreters.

Thank you all for your co-operation.

Dear colleagues, before we begin, I'd like to talk to you about a budget-related topic.

We've received two budget requests. One is for the study we're doing today, which is on ELYSIS technology, for which we're asking for $2,500, and the other is for the main expense budget, for $500.

Is there unanimous consent to adopt them both?

4:40 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound

I thank you for that.

Pursuant to the motion adopted on Monday, March 18, 2024, the committee is resuming its study of the Development and Deployment of ELYSIS Technology at Rio Tinto and Alcoa Facilities.

I’d like to welcome the Honourable François‑Philippe Champagne, Minister of Innovation, Science and Industry here with us today, as well as Mr. Simon Kennedy, deputy minister.

As everyone knows, the first hour of the meeting will focus on ELYSIS technology, while the second will be devoted to the 2024-25 Main Estimates. I would therefore ask you to adhere, as far as possible, to today's meeting schedule and to focus your questions on ELYSIS technology during the first hour of the meeting.

Without further ado, Minister, I yield the floor to you to deliver your opening remarks.

May 8th, 2024 / 4:40 p.m.

Saint-Maurice—Champlain Québec

Liberal

François-Philippe Champagne LiberalMinister of Innovation

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Dear colleagues, it is a great pleasure to be here today.

Thank you for inviting me to speak on two important topics, one of which is the aluminum industry. I have to say that this industry is the pride and joy of the people back home in Saguenay—Lac‑Saint‑Jean, Mauricie, Quebec and across the country.

The second topic is the main estimates, about which I'm sure I'll be asked more general questions.

As I was saying, it's my pleasure to appear before this committee today to discuss the main estimates for fiscal year 2024-25 and to answer any questions on Canada's aluminum industry and some key investments. I must say that we have seen record investments in the aluminum industry in our country, so it's going to be good to talk with this committee and see what more we can do together.

The request we put forward in the main estimates is for $11.5 billion, which includes funding for normal operations and also for program delivery for both the department and the portfolio agencies that we have. It also includes funding to continue the implementation of budget 2023 measures, as well as spending reductions under the refocusing government spending initiative that we have launched.

From the automotive sector to biomanufacturing, and from artificial intelligence to green and digital industries, we must ensure that Canadian companies remain at the forefront.

That's why our government has introduced tax incentives to encourage the adoption of clean technologies across the country. That's why we're making landmark investments in new industries, such as EV and battery manufacturing.

Colleagues will have seen that Canada is winning big in the world. I think we're becoming the reference when it comes to EV vehicles, and that is really thanks to our workers, who are the best in the world.

These investments are attracting attention from the major automakers and battery manufacturers around the world. In fact, you will have seen just last month that we welcomed the news that Honda Canada will be investing $15 billion to create our country's first comprehensive electric vehicle supply chain.

I just want to say to colleagues that this is the largest investment by a company in Canada's history. It's the largest investment in Honda's history, and it's the largest investment in our auto industry since the creation of Canada—that was big news for everyone.

These investments are a strong vote of confidence in Canada. It's a strong vote of confidence in our skilled workers. It's also a strong vote of confidence in the ecosystems that we have been building and in the competitive business environment that we have created in this country.

My colleagues are well aware that Canadian companies are world leaders in carbon capture and hydrogen fuel cell technology.

That's why we will continue to support the adoption of made-in-Canada clean-tech solutions for the net-zero economy.

On the digital front, we are working to connect all Canadians, regardless of where they live, with high-speed access at affordable prices. We are also trying to balance digital innovation with trust and privacy through our digital charter.

In fact, Canada's Digital Charter, which you have right in front of you, will strengthen the protection of the privacy of Canadian citizens, and it will define new ways to frame the development and use of new technologies, such as artificial intelligence.

On the subject of artificial intelligence, the Pan-Canadian Artificial Intelligence Strategy is doing just that, helping leading Canadian companies reach new heights, attract the best talent and train our young researchers.

For your information, you should know that the Pan-Canadian Artificial Intelligence Strategy is the first strategy of its kind in the world. I can tell you that my colleagues around the world are hailing Canada's initiative and leadership in this field.

Colleagues will have seen that we have recently announced an historic investment of $2.4 billion in artificial intelligence to keep our leading position. This is in what we call “computing capacity”. To make sure we have the best talent, we need to give them the tools to continue to have that leadership position. This support is earmarked to build and provide access to computing capabilities for Canada's world-leading AI researchers, start-ups and scale-ups. It will also, among other measures, help small and medium-sized businesses adopt AI solutions and support workers in dealing with this very new technology.

Dear colleagues, let me now move on to another very important subject, the Canadian aluminum industry, of which I am proud. As everyone knows, this industry is recognized worldwide.

I'm originally from Shawinigan, and the first aluminum plant in North America was set up in my region. It stayed there for a century. Most of my uncles even worked at the Alcan aluminum plant. It's an industry I know particularly well.

We're the world's fourth-largest aluminum producer and have been a strategic supplier to North America's industrial base for over a century. My colleagues in Saguenay—Lac‑Saint‑Jean, in particular, are well aware of this: the industry's contribution to our economy is considerable. We're talking $3.45 billion and over 30,000 jobs last year alone.

I would say that today, the activities carried out in Saguenay—Lac‑Saint‑Jean are the largest in the world, if you exclude China.

As nations seek to catch up and reduce their carbon footprints, carbon-free aluminum will become an increasingly essential commodity.

This is why it's important to invest in technologies like ELYSIS, which is the subject of the committee meeting.

ELYSIS technology enables Canada to play its part in reducing greenhouse gas emissions on a global scale, while maintaining its competitive edge. ELYSIS technology represents the aluminum industry's most significant innovation in over a century. It's being done right here, by local engineers, talent and workers. It's the biggest aluminum innovation in 100 years, and it's happening in Quebec. So it's a source of pride.

This new technology has also led to a historic partnership between two of the world's largest aluminum producers, Rio Tinto and Alcoa. Canada is proud to be part of this great collaboration with both companies and, of course, the Quebec government. It's investments like these that will enable our country to lay a solid foundation for the decarbonization of the aluminum industry, which is the envy of the world.

When I talk to the major automakers, I see that they all dream of being able to source their aluminum here in Quebec.

For many of our strategic trading partners, the question is no longer “Why Canada?” but rather how and when they can invest in Canada. They realize that we have what very few countries have, and I call them the five pillars.

The first one is that we have a very talented workforce. I would say that we have the best workers in the world, and people recognize that. Canada is a big magnet for talent.

The second thing is that we have strong and growing ecosystems in the automaking industry, in EVs, in batteries, in aerospace and energy, and so on. We have been blessed with natural resources and resources that can build not only batteries but also semiconductors. I would say that when I talk to the OEMs, it's all about proximity: proximity to resources, market and the assembly line.

Third, we have abundant renewable energy. Quebec, in particular, has about 99%, and generally, Canada has about 80%, so if you want to decarbonize, Canada becomes the place of choice.

Finally, thanks to our network of trade agreements, we now have access to 1.5 billion consumers around the world. Canada is the only G7 country that has a free trade agreement with all the other G7 nations. I can tell you that when you say that to investors, they understand that Canada is the place to be in the 21st century.

To sum it up, together we're building Canada's future, a future that's going to be green, a future that is digital, a future in which our industries transform and gear up for a future we can all take part in and benefit from.

I want to say thank you for your time, and again, Mr. Chair, if you allow me, I just want to take the opportunity to thank our Canadian workers. I know people always ask me, what do investors ask you first? The first thing is about talent, and everyone recognizes we have the best workers in the world.

With that I'm happy to take questions.

Thank you, colleagues.

4:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound

Thank you very much, Minister.

I now give the floor to Mr. Martel.

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

Richard Martel Conservative Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being with us today. It's a pleasure to have you here.

Given today's new timeline, are you still convinced that the ELYSIS project will be successful?

4:50 p.m.

Liberal

Tony Van Bynen Liberal Newmarket—Aurora, ON

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

I'm sorry, but the translation is not coming through effectively. I don't know if anybody else is experiencing that.

4:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound

It appears that it is fine here in the committee room.

Are you sure, Mr. Van Bynen, that your settings are correct, that you've selected English?

4:50 p.m.

Liberal

Tony Van Bynen Liberal Newmarket—Aurora, ON

Yes.

4:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound

Let us know if it's still not working, and we'll try to make sure that IT reaches out to you to make sure that translation is working. It appears to be working here.

Mr. Perkins confirms that it works.

4:50 p.m.

Liberal

Tony Van Bynen Liberal Newmarket—Aurora, ON

There seems to be an echo. I'm hearing your voices clearly, but I'm not hearing the translation voices clearly.

4:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound

Someone from IT will reach out to you.

4:50 p.m.

Liberal

Tony Van Bynen Liberal Newmarket—Aurora, ON

Thank you.

4:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound

Thank you.

Mr. Martel, you may continue.

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

Richard Martel Conservative Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Given the new timeline established for the ELYSIS project, are you still convinced that it will be successful? Some of us seem to doubt it.

4:50 p.m.

Liberal

François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

I'd say so, Mr. Martel. As you know, we practically share the region. In fact, my riding goes all the way to Lac‑Bouchette.

What gives me confidence are the workers. I've met them on several occasions. I've done at least two or three announcements in the region. The human capital, the talent we have here, is unique in the world.

When two giants like Rio Tinto and Alcoa join forces, when giants like Apple invest in ELYSIS technology, when BMW wants to source in Quebec and get products from here, that gives me confidence.

Of course, when there's a new technology in a sector for the first time in 100 years, it's certain that timelines will change. However, our workers have confidence in this technology, and, if our workers have confidence, that gives me confidence.

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

Richard Martel Conservative Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC

Minister, I would like to know if Canada has any guarantees as to the benefits it will derive from its investments.

Is Canada a shareholder, a partner?

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

Canada has contributed to the ELYSIS project with investments in the order of $80 million. For the benefit of those listening to us in Saguenay—Lac‑Saint‑Jean, I'd like to add that there's more good news to come in terms of help to further develop the technology. You'll understand that we can't do them all in one day.

The Quebec and federal governments are partners in the ELYSIS project. Rio Tinto and Alcoa have also contributed. Apple was one of the first investors.

On the other hand, we don't own any of the capital. If you're asking me if we have shares, the answer is no. We have, however, contributed public funds to move this technology forward.

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

Richard Martel Conservative Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC

Is the consortium accountable to the Government of Canada at every stage of technology development?

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

This goes further. I meet with Rio Tinto's CEO at least once or twice a year. As you know, in June 2023 we signed a strategic agreement that covers almost the next ten years. There is a great deal of transparency in this regard.

For the benefit of the people who are listening to us in Saguenay—Lac‑Saint‑Jean, I would say that what gives me confidence is the fact that the process is out of the laboratories and that we are now planning to install a line of tanks.

As you know, Mr. Martel, when you go from a prototype to an industrial process and commercialization, there are obviously steps to follow.

However, you also know that Apple has decided to invest in the technology. I met with BMW Group representatives on February 21, 2023. All BMW factories in North America are now sourcing from Saguenay.

They're still big players in the industry. Apple and BMW have confidence in ELYSIS technology, and I have confidence in our workers.

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

Richard Martel Conservative Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC

As I understand it, Canada will therefore be making further investments using public funds in the coming weeks.

When making these investments, does the government require that there be local spin-offs in Canada?

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

Yes, there's always a clause encouraging companies to maximize local benefits. That goes without saying.

When we spoke with the CEO of Rio Tinto, he told us that half of the investments were in billet-produced aluminum.

For everything to do with the ELYSIS project, we always aim to optimize regional economic spin-offs.

That's why, when I visit Rio Tinto, I always meet with union representatives to make sure that it's the Saguenay—Lac‑Saint‑Jean region, and ultimately Quebec, that benefits from the company's social and economic spin-offs.

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

Richard Martel Conservative Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC

Can you tell us how you're going to verify that there are local spin-offs?

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

Mr. Martel, all the contribution agreements we establish provide for accountability. The company is therefore accountable to us.

Also, we meet regularly with Rio Tinto people. Every time we make an announcement, we hold a meeting. In fact, I think you were present at one of the announcements.

I have regular exchanges with the union president, local leaders, and now with Mr. Pécresse, who has become the new CEO responsible for the aluminum sector.

I'm following the progress of the work. I'm also aware that after 100 years, there are bound to be adjustments to be made, even in the case of new technologies.

However, I assure you that there will be accountability.

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

Richard Martel Conservative Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC

Minister, I'm going to end my turn to speak by telling you that aluminum, in Saguenay—Lac‑Saint‑Jean, is a very big project.

Are you going to demand that the first ELYSIS aluminum smelter be located here in Canada, which is a global hub when it comes to aluminum?