Evidence of meeting #137 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was telesat.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound
Yes.
You're out of time, Ms. Rempel Garner, but I'll let the minister respond for about 30 seconds.
Liberal
François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
Canadians watching at home, we're giving nothing. We're providing a loan. We're making money from the company. The company is going to launch 198 satellites to provide communication to ensure the national security of Canadians.
At the same time, we should be happy. We'll have the largest satellite factory of its kind in the world. We'll be producing two satellites per day in this country. Workers, the industry...everyone is rejoicing that Canada is going to lead in the aerospace industry of the 21st century while we're going to be making money for Canadians.
Liberal
Liberal
Tony Van Bynen Liberal Newmarket—Aurora, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
The purpose of this meeting is to talk about your mandate letter, Mr. Minister. While some members here are still debating whether or not climate change even exists, the rest of the international community is pivoting towards a net-zero economy. We know there are tremendous environmental and economic risks associated with inaction on the climate file, but there are also tremendous economic opportunities available to countries that are willing to be ambitious and to seize this unique moment.
Your mandate letter includes a direction “to create more jobs and achieve long-term economic and industrial transformation towards a low-carbon future”. Why do you view this as an essential part of promoting Canadian innovation and productivity?
Liberal
François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
If you look at the state of the world, there are two megatrends in the world: decarbonization and the digitization of the economy. With regard to decarbonization, I think we're doing very well. We've attracted record investment, for example, in aluminum. Actually, the smelter of Rio Tinto in Saguenay—Mr. Généreux and Mr. Garon would know very well where it is—today is going to be providing green aluminum to the BMW and Audi plants in the United States, so we should know. It's in Quebec, so you should be proud that the smelter will be providing green aluminum to the North American auto industry.
We're doing the same thing in steel. Just yesterday, I was with Dofasco, and we were talking about its plan to green...and to reduce CO2 emissions by millions of tonnes. Do you know why that matters? It's because, in the world of the 21st century, the economies that decarbonize are going to win. You don't need to take it from me. Just look at, for example, the CEO of Mercedes-Benz. The CEO of Mercedes-Benz has been very vocal that by 2039 he would give you a certificate of zero carbon in a car if you were to buy one of his cars. That means that the whole industry is going to decarbonize. Those who invest in green mines, electric mines, green steel and green aluminum are going to win in the economy of the 21st century.
That's what we did with batteries, as well, to build an ecosystem where we're going to be able to supply the economy of the 21st century, which is going to be decarbonized. At the same time, we've been investing in the digital economy, because we understand that the role of AI in quantum is going to be fundamental.
I would say that Canada has never been in a better position, because in this world where you need to decarbonize and digitize with more automation, robotization and productivity, which are going to be linked, that brings prosperity. If you look at the scheme, these two megatrends are bringing prosperity and addressing productivity in this country. That's why I'm saying that the investments we've made are going to create and sustain jobs and are going to put Canada in a place to win in the economy of the 21st century. I think that's one of the greatest achievements, because the responsibility of members here is not just to care for today. We also need to plan for tomorrow and for the years and decades to come.
I think that we've been able to seize a generational moment, which happens only once in a lifetime. Where do you have breakthrough technology like AI and quantum? Where do you shift after 100 years of how you've been making cars to another way of making cars? The way we could have done it is to step back, but the way we did it is to be ambitious, to seize the moment. I remember that yesterday the president of Shopify said that what he wishes for is a more ambitious Canada. I say that at every speech I give. I say to seize the moment and to be ambitious. That's what we need to do. That's why we are, and that's why we win.
Liberal
Tony Van Bynen Liberal Newmarket—Aurora, ON
We talked about digitization, artificial intelligence, etc., but properly harnessed and regulated, artificial intelligence has the potential to be one of the greatest technological transformations of our age, and the emerging Canadian ecosystem is one of the best in the world.
From your conversations with experts, stakeholders and others, what is their vision of how Canada can continue to cement its position as a responsible global leader in AI?
Liberal
François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
Well, I'm happy you asked the question. By the way, Canada was the first country in the world to have a national AI strategy. We were also the first to have a national quantum strategy. We were the second in the world to have a voluntary code of conduct on AI, and obviously, we were, I think, the first or the second jurisdiction in the world to introduce a bill to regulate AI. I think that's what members of this committee care about.
We need to move from fear to opportunity, and in order to do that, you need to build trust in society. The way you build trust is through regulation, so that people understand what AI is going to do for them and that we're not going to let the genie out of the bottle. We're going to make sure that whatever innovation there is will be responsible and in service of humanity.
Canadians want to be in the forefront of innovation—I'm going to be at one of the biggest summits a few hours from now, in Toronto. At the same time, they expect us as regulators, as legislators, to make sure that it's responsible, that it's going to serve them and serve humanity, and that there are guidelines. That's what I hope we can achieve with this committee.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound
Thank you, Mr. Van Bynen. Your time is up.
Thank you, Minister.
Mr. Garon, it's your turn for two and a half minutes.
Bloc
Jean-Denis Garon Bloc Mirabel, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Minister, you said earlier you didn't regret your comments that the opposition parties were holding up Bill C‑27. You also said that the industry was getting frustrated, that it was even angrier than you are. I take it you care about what the industry and civil society have to say.
When it comes to AI, copyright is another issue, specifically reform of the Copyright Act, which is full of holes. No copyright reforms have been proposed in relation to AI. There are groups of stakeholders who want to sit down with you and have their voices heard on the issue of copyright enforcement for visual productions and the copyright exceptions for universities.
I realize that you don't regret your comments, but it's as though one of your ears is a bit more blocked, depending on who's doing the talking.
When will we see Copyright Act reforms?
Liberal
François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
First, I want to say that we are looking closely at copyright issues as they relate to AI. I agree that we have to protect copyright. That applies not just to Canada. It's a best practice internationally.
Look at it as a heartfelt plea. I know the committee may have felt targeted, but it was a heartfelt plea.
Montreal is home to companies such as Mila and Scale AI. When we get an opportunity to meet with experts and researchers like Yoshua Bengio, we have to listen to them. Frankly, if there's anyone we should be listening to, it's him, in my view. He's an expert not only in Quebec, but also internationally. He's also on the UN Secretary-General's Scientific Advisory Board.
Liberal
François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
I think we need to listen to him. When someone like him is giving us guidance, we know which direction to take.
Bloc
Jean-Denis Garon Bloc Mirabel, QC
I know you understand how valuable our time is.
I asked you a question about reform of the Copyright Act the last time you appeared before the committee. You said that you were working on it, that you were consulting the stakeholders and so forth.
I want to believe you, but when we talk to the groups who are trying to meet with you and make you understand the issue, they tell us they don't get the feeling that progress is being made.
I appreciate that your making a heartfelt plea, but you are the minister. As minister, you can also bring forward bills. Anyone can make a heartfelt plea. Forty million Canadians can do the same. When it comes to introducing legislation, though, you're the person who can do that. You set the agenda. If we're here again in 10 years, will we get the same answer?
Liberal
François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
I introduced Bill C‑27. All you have to do is look at the pace at which things are moving. Sometimes you have to put out a plea and mobilize civil society—
Bloc
Liberal
François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
No, but you were asking me whether it counted.
Liberal
François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
Society's heartfelt plea matters.
On the issue of copyright, I've always said that we need to take into account the interests of both sides. I'm just as attentive to the education sector as I am to the copyright community. As we've always said, we are examining the issue carefully. I meet with a lot of people, and a lot of things have to be done at the same time.
That said, I am listening, and I'm trying to find the right way to move forward on a complex issue.
Thank you for raising it.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound
Thank you, Minister.
We now go to Mr. Masse for two and a half minutes.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
Mr. Minister, one of the key elements to investment is infrastructure redundancy. We have the Gordie Howe bridge coming online very soon. As you know, the Ambassador Bridge will be allowed to carry hazardous material from the state of Michigan over the bridge, which has the fire department opposed, the police association, the CBSA union, the City of Windsor, other businesses and so forth. The hazardous material will require extensive interventions, including escorts to get across the bridge, but this can actually be done safely in months to come on the Gordie Howe bridge.
I've raised this to you. What have you done since then? This will actually deter investment into Ontario. One leak alone on the Blue Water Bridge shut down the bridge down for nine hours. That was just a leak, and they had the proper containment systems in place.
What is being done, with this October deadline coming up, with regard to haz-mat, environmentally and also economically?
Liberal
François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
Mr. Masse, I want to thank you for raising this very important issue. I know that you asked a question in the House. I think we owe you a more fulsome answer. I will say that to you this morning.
I talked to my deputy minister to make sure we work with Transport Canada. As you know, it's more a Transport Canada issue in terms of regulation, but I know you're raising something important. I know you're raising something that requires attention.
You also mentioned Gordie Howe. I want to thank you as well, because you were with me at the time when I was, I think, Minister of Infrastructure, to make sure that we have communities on both sides of the border and to seize the moment of that project and create something that I think the community is happy with. This will be the largest crossing in North America.
On that, Mr. Masse, I was saying to the deputy minister that we should come back to you with the civil service to make sure we provide you with a more fulsome answer on the very important topic you've raised this morning.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
Okay. I appreciate that, and that's fair and fine, but the deadline is coming.
Again, the toxic materials are not just in regard to the danger to the environment and ecosystem. They also will complicate bridge traffic in operations for just-in-time delivery of various industries.
With that, thank you.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound
Thank you, Mr. Masse.
We have about five minutes left. I'll split it between the Conservatives and the Liberals. Two and a half minutes each will go to both Mr. Perkins and Mr. Badawey.
Mr. Perkins, the floor is yours.
Conservative
Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Minister, the CEO of Telesat, who is a close personal friend of the new Liberal finance minister, Mark Carney, was given over 800,000 shares in Telesat in 2021.
Are you aware of that?