Evidence of meeting #146 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was turnbull.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound

I declare the subamendment carried.

Usually I can read the room, but I'm glad to see that we have unanimous consent on the subamendment proposed by Mr. Turnbull, which brings us back to the amendment.

At this point, colleagues, if we've agreed to this subamendment unanimously, I'm guessing that we're agreeing on the motion as amended. I think we can proceed that way. Do I have UC to say that it's adopted?

(Amendment as amended agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

(Motion as amended agreed to)

That's amazing. Thank you. We did that in an hour, which leaves us one more hour.

I have on my list Mr. Perkins.

9:15 a.m.

Conservative

Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Yes. I have had a motion on notice. I'm just trying to find it here in my package.

It's with regard to Telesat. We had some testimony on Telesat.

Can you hang on just a second?

The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound

Mr. Perkins, do you want us to suspend briefly?

9:15 a.m.

Conservative

Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

No. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The motion says:

That, in relation to the Government of Canada's recent $2.1-billion loan to Telesat, the committee agree to hold two meetings examining the feasibility and business case justifying the deal—

The current motion says “within 14 days”. We'll have to amend that, but I'll read it in now because that's what's on motion:

—within 14 days of the adoption of this motion, and the committee agree to invite the following witnesses: Francis Bilodeau, acting deputy minister of ISED, and Daniel Goldberg, the CEO of Telesat.

The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound

There's a Telesat motion. I think we have it printed here. It is somewhere. Notice was given.

Mr. Perkins, do you have anything to add on this, or do we start the debate right now?

9:15 a.m.

Conservative

Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

I will just say that we had quite questionable testimony from the minister, who didn't seem to understand the deal and the terms of the deal on the $2.1 billion that he had signed off on in a loan to Telesat, which is a company that's at least 63% owned by American hedge funds. The minister didn't seem to understand that fact, and neither did the department. I don't think they had done their homework.

It's to put up 198 satellites at a cost of somewhere between $10 million and $20 million a satellite. This is quite a huge commitment from the Government of Canada, to be subsidizing an American firm that has had failing revenue. The interest costs will now equate to about two-thirds of the revenue this company has, just on the debt, when you include this loan.

I believe it is our responsibility as members of the industry committee to look into bailouts of American companies, which is what the industry minister has tried to do.

The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound

Thank you.

I have Brian Masse on this, and then Mr. Turnbull.

Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I do support this motion. I just want to follow up in regard to my previous comments as we try to work our way through different evidence here.

We still have not heard from the parliamentary secretary or anybody about the intentions of the government on Bill C-27, so I would consider just drafting a motion for you, as chair, to ask the minister specifically. At the same time, I'm figuring that at this point I'll just assume that it's been abandoned. Why create more work for ourselves when we have other things like this that we can look at and that are important to Canadians? There have been significant issues in Telesat that have come up, as well as other things.

With that, I'm not going to propose that you write a letter to the minister to find out what he's doing, because I can only assume the behaviour that is conducted in public is really representative of what he sends his members here to do, and that's basically to abandon legislation. In committee in the past, we've abandoned our own studies and other things to focus on legislation. I want to remind everyone here that it was in the last two sessions that Liberal members were filibustering the committee by speaking through the time frames and timelines because they didn't know what to do about the tribunal.

We have a number of different organizations and companies that are asking us on a regular basis, on civil society to.... Even just yesterday I had another telecommunications lobby to me, asking what's going on with Bill C-27. I basically can only respond to what the minister is saying in public. I guess we move on at this point. If they're not going to come prepared to this meeting to tell us what their objectives are on this, we need to set our schedule and move ahead. It's entirely their fault on this, because we have set aside time and we have not heard anything back.

That's where I'm at. I'll support this because we will have some time when we get other things done. I'm hoping that we can clear the deck with the stuff we've already done. For those reasons, I'll support motions that will occupy our time, because, if not, we're just going to miss opportunities to look at very important matters. This is one that's been raised not only by the Conservative Party but by others with regard to Telesat. I'll support it based on that.

I'll just close by saying that, again, I was going to ask you to write it up. We've done this before, with unanimous consent, to have the chair look at it, but what's the point? They see all of this. They have their members in the room here. They have their people from their party lobby system, and they really don't give a damn, I guess, at the end of the day, so we'll just move ahead at this point in time.

The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound

Thank you, Mr. Masse.

Next, we have Mr. Turnbull.

Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON

Thanks, Chair.

Thanks to all of the committee members for a good, productive meeting. I'm glad we got that last motion passed, with some consensus-building.

I propose to amend this and take out “within 14 days”. Basically, everything would stay the same, except that we'd be deleting “within 14 days of the adoption of this motion”. If you just take that out, then I think we'd be prepared to support it.

The background for this is that obviously it's a loan to Telesat. The loan is structured, and the nature of the industry—putting satellites up into space—is a complex one. You have to understand the business model, and the amount of time that that takes, to understand the structure of a loan that would support an industry like that. It's unique.

This would be a good opportunity for us to understand that a bit better and, hopefully, to educate the Conservatives, because they don't seem to get that.

The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound

Thank you, Mr. Turnbull.

Mr. Généreux, you have the floor.

9:20 a.m.

Conservative

Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would propose a subamendment to Mr. Turnbull's amendment.

I agree with the 14‑day deadline. However, we should make sure that the two meetings for this study are held after the study on potential anti-competitive behaviour in Canada's electronic transfer ecosystem.

We received the order from the House to study that question.

The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound

It goes without saying that, regardless of the motions we adopt, they will not take precedence over the proposed December schedule.

Based on our current schedule, we will undoubtedly have to respond to the order of the House. We therefore cannot give precedence to this study.

I want to remind my colleagues that Mr. Turnbull's amendment proposes to remove the words “within 14 days following the adoption of this motion”.

Are there any comments on this amendment?

Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

We proposed a subamendment.

The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound

Yes, Mr. Généreux proposed a subamendment to the amendment.

I was just explaining to Mr. Généreux that we're not going to change the schedule for this motion. We have an order from the House to study anti-competitive behaviour, which is taking us until Christmas.

9:25 a.m.

Conservative

Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

I have a point of order.

The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound

Go head, Mr. Perkins.

9:25 a.m.

Conservative

Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Mr. Généreux's subamendment proposes a time, which is in order, and that time is after the study, as he said.

The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound

I'm sorry, Mr. Généreux. The subamendment says that it's right after the anti-competitive ecosystem study that we have.

On the subamendment, do I have any speakers?

I have Mr. Masse.

Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON

What does that do to all of our other business, though, including our current study? I'm not sure when we start the stuff from the House and when that finishes. If this goes right after that, it means we can't even have one meeting to finish anything else. I'm just wondering.

The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound

Well, on the credit cards study, from my understanding, we've already had the meetings that we agreed to in the motion, and then some. We would need some time for the drafting instructions and the report, but I think that can be managed, if need be, through additional resources. Sometimes when we have scheduling issues, we can squeeze in a meeting to analyze the report, which has to be written by the analysts as well, so we have a bit of time on that, Mr. Masse.

Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON

Okay. That's my only concern: locking us out of any flexibility.

The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound

That's understood.

Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON

I don't think that's the intention of the mover on that, either. It's just that I didn't want us to get into that bind.

The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound

Just to get back, in the interest of trying to speed things up, Mr. Turnbull has proposed to remove “within 14 days”, and Mr. Généreux is subamending that to just say that it would be right after the current study on credit cards and anti-competitive behaviour.

Do I have any comments on that specific subamendment?

On that subamendment, I have Mr. Turnbull.