Industry Committee on April 5th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Good afternoon, everyone.

I call this meeting to order.

I would like to start by thanking the witnesses joining us today using the Zoom application.

Welcome to meeting number 16 of the Standing Committee on Industry and Technology.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Tuesday, March 1, 2022, the committee is meeting on quantum computing.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House Order of November 25, 2021. Members are attending in person in the room and remotely using the Zoom application. I would ask all those attending in person to observe the health regulations in effect.

Before we hear from the witnesses who are here today, I would just like to address one small matter with respect to committee business.

We have two budgets to pass. One is for our quantum computing study and the other is for our critical minerals study. This will allow the clerk to initiate the expenditures.

Do I have unanimous consent among committee members to approve both budgets?

I see that all committee members agree.

Then, with no further ado, I will introduce the witnesses.

We welcome Gilles Brassard, professor at Université de Montréal's Department of Computer Science and Operations Research; Shohini Ghose, professor at Wilfrid Laurier University; Kimberley Hall, professor of physics at Dalhousie University's Department of Physics and Atmospheric Science; Marie‑Pierre Ippersiel, president and CEO of PRIMA Québec; and Olivier Gagnon‑Gordillo, executive director at Québec Quantique.

I'd like to thank all the witnesses for being with us this afternoon.

Mr. Brassard, you have the floor for five to six minutes.

[Dr. Gilles Brassard, Professor, Department of Computer Science and Operations Research, Université de Montréal, As an Individual]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, everyone.

Is it better if I speak in English?

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Mr. Brassard, interpretation is available in both official languages. So please feel free to speak French or English.

[Dr. Gilles Brassard]

Perfect.

My name is Gilles Brassard. I am a professor in the Department of Computer Science and Operations Research at Université de Montréal.

Let me speak in English and give my credentials, so that you know about me a little bit. I was involved in quantum information, informatique quantique, in the late 1970s, so I was the earliest person in Canada working on this topic. I invented, with Charles Bennett of IBM, quantum cryptography in the early 1980s and quantum teleportation.

That being said, my position about quantum information science, informatique quantique, is that it indeed should be a priority by the government for funding and research and development. This is a golden opportunity for Canada to remain at the top. Again, I was there with Charlie Bennett when there was essentially no one else in the world doing this type of research. Therefore, Canada was from the start leading the world in this discipline.

I want to tell you why it's so important to develop quantum information in all of its manifestations. One is that quantum computing poses a very significant threat to security. I'm sure you've heard it already, but I will say it again. Quantum computers, when they are built and we finally have a full-scale quantum computer, as opposed to the toys that are currently available.... These are fantastic technological feats, but at the moment they cannot really do anything useful that we would not do classically. But it is only a matter of time. Once full-scale quantum computers become available, then all of the security on which the Internet is based—not only the Internet, but essentially all of the cryptographic infrastructure on which we rely—will collapse, because of an algorithm invented by Peter Shor that essentially breaks all of the cryptography that is currently used on the Internet.

Let me be more precise on key establishment. Once a key is established, then it is used with more and more conventional systems, which are not so much threatened by quantum computing, but key establishment is. The reason why this is so serious is that whenever this happens it's not that secure communication will no longer be possible, but that all past communications become vulnerable. This is because nothing prevents what we call the “harvest now and decrypt later” strategy, which consists of taking down all of the information that goes on the Internet and storing it, even though the encryption cannot be broken yet. When a quantum computer comes along, then you can just go back, take all of that from your discs and decrypt retroactively. In other words, everything that's been sent on the Internet since essentially the beginning of time will become an open book when a quantum computer is available. Therefore, there's no way to try to protect the past. The past is gone forever—forget about it. But we can still hope to protect the future. This can only be done if we realize the importance of quantum secure communication.

There are two ways to do that. One is to use classical, ordinary cryptography and hope it is secure against quantum computing, which we will never be able to prove. All we know is that our currently used systems are vulnerable. Some new systems are being developed that may be secure, but we won't be able to prove that.

Or, you can use quantum cryptography. Of course, I have a vested interest in quantum cryptography, having invented it, but I have no commercial interest. Quantum cryptography is an alternative in which instead of using mathematics we use physics to protect the information in a way that is provably, unconditionally secure, regardless of the eavesdropper's computing power and technological sophistication. Quantum cryptography is secure even against a quantum computer and should be considered very seriously.

At the moment, China is deploying a large-scale quantum cryptographic network. They already have a network that links Beijing to Shanghai, which is used for real already with a satellite that they launched to experiment with long-distance space quantum cryptography. Quantum crypto is very seriously considered in China. Also, it is to a lesser extent, but quite a bit, in Europe. It's much less in North America, and really not very much at all in the United States. I think Canada should get back the lead on this topic to secure communications, because our society needs it.

Quantum computers can also be used for good to do all kinds of wonderful things like develop new medications, but that's another story.

My time is up, so I'll stop here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you very much, Mr. Brassard.

Ms. Ghose, you now have the floor.

[Dr. Shohini Ghose, Professor, Wilfrid Laurier University, As an Individual]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My name is Shohini Ghose, and I have suffered my whole life from insatiable curiosity about how the universe works. In my office hangs a poster that says, “There is no cure for curiosity.” That curiosity inevitably led me to the strange quantum world, and now, as a professor of physics and computer science at Wilfrid Laurier University, I lead a diverse research team exploring quantum computing. I get to dream about teleportation—thank you, Professor Brassard, for inventing it—and about how it can be used in a future quantum Internet. Truly, I feel like “Alice in quantum wonderland”.

My team was the first to observe a connection between chaos theory and quantum entanglement. That's a phenomenon called the quantum butterfly effect. I also hold a TED senior fellowship, which has given me a global platform. If you have 10 minutes to spare, I invite you all to view my TED talk on quantum computing. It is the most-viewed TED talk on this topic.

I'm a good example of the Canadian connected quantum ecosystem in action. Although I'm not based at a major research university, I've worked with researchers in the quantum hubs in Calgary and Waterloo. I also have ongoing collaborations with colleagues at Ryerson and in industry.

My fellow researchers have already given you a sense of the huge potential for quantum technologies to impact multiple sectors. That brings with it opportunities as well as challenges for Canada. The most pressing by far, as you have heard, is the question of data security. I'm sure we'll talk about it more during the Q and A session. For now, I'd like to focus my remarks on three areas—education, collaboration and communication.

On the education side, even if every physics major in Canada were to choose a career in quantum computing, it would probably not meet the future workforce needs of the sector. Therefore, it is critical to develop talent from adjacent fields. You don't need a Ph.D. in physics to have a career in quantum tech. In fact, quantum computing sits at the intersection of physics, computer science, mathematics, chemistry, engineering and even biology. For example, for the past decade, I have been teaching a very successful undergraduate course on quantum computing for all science majors. It does not require any prior knowledge of quantum mechanics. Similar courses are now offered in other institutions.

A structured effort to build a unique broad-based curriculum that provides multiple pathways to quantum careers is needed. This could make the Canadian workforce agile and attract the best talent from elsewhere. This kind of effort would bring dividends regardless of the success or failure of a particular quantum technology.

Furthermore, there is a huge untapped pool of talent right here in Canada and around the world. Women, gender minorities and people of colour remain under-represented in science disciplines, particularly in physics, where one in five students is a woman. As of the last count, the number of black or indigenous women professors in physics in Canada was zero.

I hold one of five chairs in Canada for women in science and engineering, funded by NSERC, and the five chair-holders work together to increase the participation of women in STEM fields. I'm also the first Canadian representative to serve on the working group on women in physics of the International Union of Pure and Applied Physics, where the Waterloo charter on diversity and inclusion, which was launched here in Canada, was recently ratified. In 2019 I was the first person of colour to be president of the Canadian Association of Physicists, and I've been working to build a more diverse and inclusive physics community in Canada.

I really believe that the quantum revolution provides a unique opportunity for Canada to be a leader in building excellence through inclusion in this sector. We know how to build community in Canada, and we can show the world how to do it. This too would bring dividends regardless of the particular quantum technology being explored. Furthermore, ethics in AI has become an important and growing conversation, but quantum ethics is barely discussed. That seems to me a major gap that needs to be addressed.

The other thing I want to say is that it's a challenge to try to predict where a new technology will be used and what the applications will be. That's why a quantum ecosystem must include not just hardware and software engineers in quantum but also experts in health, finance, energy, and ethics to identify industry-specific needs and realistic quantum solutions. Interdisciplinary expertise and training will therefore be critical.

As a final point, I want to note that there is great public interest and enthusiasm for quantum computing, and a desire to know more. The Perimeter Institute in Waterloo, where I'm an affiliate, has offered many public lectures on the topic. They all sell out in minutes. My own online talks on quantum have received over five million views.

Now more than ever, it's clear that scientific literacy and public engagement play a key role in future societal progress. Canadian quantum scientists are already viewed as thought leaders, so they can play a major role in inspiring curious minds.

They say that curiosity killed the cat, but a quantum Schrodinger’s cat is never really dead.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you very much, Professor.

We'll move to Professor Hall, for five minutes.

[Dr. Kimberley Hall, Professor of Physics, Department of Physics and Atmospheric Science, Dalhousie University, As an Individual]

It'll be hard to follow that.

My name is Kimberly Hall. I've been a professor of physics at Dalhousie University for the past 18 years. Throughout my career, my research has focused on various areas of quantum technology, ranging from spin-based electronics to quantum spectroscopy on energy materials and the development of what are called quantum emitters.

In my group, we use specialized lasers—very short laser pulses that we engineer—to study how to control these systems optimally when applied, for example, to quantum state initialization or quantum simulation using optical control of solid-state semiconductor qubit systems.

I have benefited from the significant early investments that Canada has made in the quantum area, like Discovery, CFI and Canada research chairs. I've had involvement with industry through contracts awarded via the offset programs with Lockheed Martin and Rockwell Collins. One of my graduate students started a company several years ago that applies some of the quantum science we have learned to solar cell technology.

I'm coming from Dalhousie University. Dal is a U15 school. It has strengths in areas such as ocean science and energy generation and storage. In the quantum area, we have a lot of room to grow. I'm one of only three faculty members focused on this area. The other two—Peter Selinger and Julien Ross—work in quantum algorithm development, which is a very different area from mine. Along with Peter and Julien, I'm an example of the very large number of quantum researchers in Canada that are leading internationally in their fields, but are not located at one of the three main hub institutions in the Canadian quantum space.

It has been said many times already that the most important role of the strategy is to support the full quantum ecosystem. In doing so, we need to keep in mind that fundamental research and commercial innovation are much more tightly linked in the quantum area than in any other field. This is because applications are being developed in lockstep with the development of an understanding of the basic physics behind them. Companies are being formed around concepts that are promising but not well-defined yet in some cases, and that are fundamentally evolving as the science evolves.

In funding this ecosystem, it is essential to support collaborations between the academic and industrial sectors. There are many crucial areas of quantum science that have a great potential for future innovation, but for which the research is not yet at a stage where direct ties to industry make sense. These must be supported as well.

I'll give you an example. We, along with groups around the world, are discovering and developing new two-dimensional materials right now. These are single atomic layers of a material in which it turns out that simply stretching this very thin layer over a very small pillar creates what's called a quantum emitter. It is a source of single photons, which are essential in many areas of quantum technology. The interesting thing is that you can actually deposit this layer of atoms using something quite similar to scotch tape. This means that we can create an entire photonic circuit using the technology we have now and introduce quantum functionality by simply peeling and sticking these layers on top.

This may turn out to be a crucial step needed to get quantum photonic circuits to the commercial stage, but at this point, we are just peeling and sticking different kinds of materials for the first time and trying to figure out why these emitters form. This is an example of something that's very promising, but clearly not ready to be spun off into a company.

Another point I want to make is that the more excellent scientists and researchers we have tackling this field in Canada, the more excellent ideas, companies and products we are going to produce as a country. Two heads are better than one and we need many more heads than two. Great ideas can come from anywhere in the country. They can come from small institutions or large ones. They can come from people of many different cultures and visibly distinct groups. A healthy quantum ecosystem must have a broad base to prepare us for the next 20 years of innovation. The funding landscape must support this broad base.

In relation to this, it is true that as a country we are investing less in quantum than some other countries, so there's been considerable discussion in these meetings of the need to spend the funds strategically. No matter what amount of funding you start with, you must dedicate some of it to supporting the broad base or the ecosystem won't be healthy and we will all lose in the long term.

We must do better at this. The key is to have open competitions where excellence is the metric and to avoid the artificial barriers that can come into play from the structure of the funding program that we choose. For instance, I believe that a quantum supplement to Discovery grants would reach excellent researchers within a much broader range of contexts than some of the other programs that have been explicitly highlighted in the strategy. This would also increase the number of quantum trainees. The NRC challenge programs are also quite good.

Finally, I just wanted say that it is fantastic that these meetings are happening and that you will all have a chance to share what you have learned here with your constituents.

It is crucial that the public, if not understanding how quantum tech works, at least understands why it's important to invest in. This is not easy because people think they already have fast computers. By the time you explain what an NP-hard problem is, many of those who are not in math and science will have lost interest. It is much easier to remember examples like magnetic field sensors that will mean that when you get an MRI you won't have to get into a claustrophobic chamber that takes up half a room as well as a lot of energy, the gravitational sensors that may allow us to see if a culvert is blocked without digging up the ground, or the photonic sensors that enable us to see around corners.

We all know that big money is being invested in this area because of national security, not because of these other applications, but that is not the main consideration when it comes to effective outreach. The point is, whatever words you choose to describe the value of quantum please spread those words widely.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, Professor Hall.

We'll now move to Mr. Chong for five minutes.

[Dr. Jaron Chong, Chair, Artificial Intelligence Standing Committee, Canadian Association of Radiologists]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Chair, members of the committee and fellow panellists, my name is Dr. Jaron Chong. I'm the chair of the Canadian Association of Radiologists' standing committee on artificial intelligence. I'm also an assistant professor of radiology at Western University here in London, Ontario, and a body imager at Victoria Hospital.

The CAR represents Canadian radiologists and represents almost 2,900 members who provide medical imaging for millions of patients across Canada. Radiology is at the forefront of technological innovation in medicine, relying heavily on the contributions and developments of advanced technologies to enhance patient care.

These breakthroughs in imaging technology and research have led to almost an exponential growth of imaging data over the past few decades, which has then been applied back to health care questions and workflows, particularly most recently in the domain of artificial intelligence.

In 2017, the CAR established a standing committee on AI to deliberate on the practice, policy and patient care issues related to the implementation of AI in medical imaging. Through a series of highly cited white papers, contributions to scientific forums and engagement with policy-makers in Canada and abroad, the CAR has been a leader in the international conversation about AI.

I say all of this and realize that this is a session on quantum computing, and I am not an expert on mechanics or computing in that way. What I do represent, however, is what we hope will be one of the ultimate end point applications of quantum computing, particularly as it relates to AI, to help optimize health care and medical imaging.

From the health care perspective, quantum computing may not necessarily solve new classes of problems that are not currently tackled right now with conventional computing, but they may vastly accelerate the computational speeds of our most NP-hard, difficult training projects and experiments, and greatly expand the size and scope of the clinical problems we tackle. Really, we do see that conventional digital computing and quantum are mutually complementary and will almost certainly coexist for a very long time.

However, what we're most excited about is that we expect the speed at which we can train algorithms will improve by orders of magnitude. Imagine training a neural network to detect lung cancer on a CT scan in minutes instead of days to months, or—as was previously mentioned—developing a novel chemotherapy molecule for mass production in simulation, as opposed to years and years of lab experimentation.

If there's one lesson that radiology has learned about AI in the past five years, it's that the computation and the algorithms can actually change by the year and by the week, but the datasets being used to train those algorithms are a much longer-term investment, so the careful curation of datasets has remained useful from 2017 to 2022 and beyond.

Regardless of whether you're thinking about conventional or quantum computing, the amount of curated, labelled data harnessed to optimize all these patient outcomes, ensure appropriate care and enhance the efficiency of the entire system is very much a “garbage in, garbage out” metaphor. Our current work on AI right now is hindered sometimes more so by the amount of time it takes to clean and curate good data than it is by the computational capacity. I will make a metaphor: A faster car doesn't get you there faster if your roads are still full of potholes.

What we need to ask ourselves about right now is what long-term policies and investments in better data today will position Canada to be creative, competent and competitive for our health care AI needs of tomorrow, and for quantum AI, as well.

We feel that that, during the last AI revolution, investments in centres of excellence and basic science enabled Canada to play an international leadership role that was vastly disproportionate to our size and population. The real challenge is maintaining our competitive edge and retaining the benefits of our investments as these innovations are applied to various sectors. We've often seen that we invest in the short term on a cyclic manner, but the downstream benefits of those investments were oftentimes difficult to fully realize for Canadians on a population level over the long term.

From a health care perspective, we have to accept the very realistic probability that the majority of health care AI used on Canadian patients will not have been developed or trained on Canadian data. If this is the case, are we prepared to accept the consequences of imported biases, failure to perform or failure to generalize, or even the economic significance of importing them and not solely exporting applications?

In a postquantum computing landscape, we would expect that the strengths and the weaknesses of data infrastructure would be magnified. Those who have the pipelines will run faster. Those who do not will fall behind or perhaps find themselves buying from another.

If you are a decision-maker, we want you to know that we still think there's a dramatic need for investments in digitization and data collection. We need to ensure that the data we are collecting is good data that meets our current and future needs, and we need to improve our data infrastructure to facilitate data sharing to empower investigators, while also safeguarding the rights of patients and privacy.

We do need to continually invest in the basic sciences and fundamental research that will help make the promise of quantum computing in health care and real-world applications less of a far-off proposition. We've seen that with earlier efforts to advance AI that Canada definitely has the talent and the technical know-how to lead in this field and in many others. What will make a difference for Canadian patients and the health care system is if we can find a way to incentivize innovators to develop and implement their technologies here at home.

I welcome any questions you may have, and I look forward to the hopefully very interesting discussion coming up next.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, Mr. Chong.

Ms. Ippersiel, you have the floor.

[Marie-Pierre Ippersiel, President and Chief Executive Officer, PRIMA Québec]

Mr. Chair, members of the committee, thank you for inviting me to appear before the committee.

I head up PRIMA Québec, the advanced materials research and innovation cluster.

PRIMA is a sectoral industrial research group. There are nine in Quebec in different sectors, which are mandated by the Quebec government to facilitate and support the advanced materials ecosystem through collaborative innovation.

We therefore bridge the gap between the research and industry communities by fostering collaborative innovation. In other words, we foster relationships between research and industry players, and we support the development of projects that we are then able to fund.

Concretely, these projects will enable companies to tap into research expertise so they can innovate, be more competitive and, most importantly, stand out in the marketplace eventually.

Over the past five years, we have supported more than 90 projects with a total value of close to $90 million, which brought 190 industry partners together with 26 research partners. Most importantly, these projects led to the training of over 120 master's students and more than 275 doctoral and postdoctoral students who, as you know, will form a highly qualified and useful workforce for industry.

With respect to quantum computing, eight projects with a total value of $8 million have been initiated over the past two years, and this will cultivate talent.

Professor Alexandre Blais, of the Université de Sherbrooke, whom you heard on March 25, made the link between quantum and advanced materials.

Let me say a few words about advanced materials, which play a strategic role in all economic sectors. Advanced materials are new or significantly improved materials that provide a significant performance advantage, physical or functional, over conventional materials.

Physical performance refers to materials that provide improved electrical and thermal conductivity, as well as materials that have magnetic properties.

Functional performance refers to hydrophobic, icephobic and biodegradable materials, as well as self-healing and smart materials.

At the same time, I'd like to point out that advanced equipment is key when developing advanced materials, and this plays a critical role in terms of a company's capacity to innovate.

The advanced materials sector is primarily made up of innovative small and medium-sized enterprises, or SMEs, which, although they are active in research and development, don't always have the internal resources to carry out characterization tests, material synthesis, surface treatment or scaling.

As a result, access to equipment and related expertise is critical, not only to seal the transition from technology to innovation, but also to help businesses gain access to various markets.

All of this and access to advanced equipment are equally prevalent in the quantum technologies sector.

Finally, with respect to the committee's focus, quantum is seen as an enabling force and driver in the discovery and development of new materials, processes that integrate materials, or in the development of equipment for their production or characterization. Simply put, quantum accelerates simulations and will allow us to combine all kinds of properties and functionality that we want to obtain, and do it more quickly.

To continue to meet their customers' needs, big industrial players, particularly those whose products and applications rely on solid simulation, manufacturing and characterization capabilities for new materials, must invest in modelling, developing new materials and optimizing processes to implement the materials.

As others have already mentioned, however, we will need to increase awareness of the benefits of quantum technologies among these industrial players.

I would be happy to answer your questions.

Thank you for your attention.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you very much, Ms. Ippersiel.

Mr. Gagnon‑Gordillo, you now have the floor.

[Olivier Gagnon-Gordillo, Executive Director, Québec Quantique]

Good afternoon.

Thank you for the opportunity to appear before the committee today.

My name is Olivier Gagnon‑Gordillo, and I'm responsible for the Québec Quantique initiative, which aims to make quantum science and technology an economic and social development driver for Quebec.

Québec Quantique started its activities about a year and a half ago. The original and basic idea is to catalyze and ensure concerted action among local players and to ensure that the Quebec ecosystem gets to shine outside of our province with a collective brand, making it easier to connect with companies, investors, researchers and talent interested in collaborating with actors from our ecosystem.

Today I will focus on two main topics that I believe to be of interest for the Canadian national quantum strategy, and I will share some examples of what Quebec is doing in line with these topics. One, I will talk about talent development, retention and attraction. It has been a much-discussed topic lately. Two, I'll discuss the adoption of quantum technologies from industry.

First, let's start with two examples of current initiatives in Quebec that do address these topics. The first example is Sherbrooke's Institut quantique, which was announced earlier in February. The recent announcement of the Sherbrooke quantum innovation hub is a great example of an initiative that needs to be supported by the federal government. The hub in itself is a $435-million project out of which $131 million is injected directly by the Quebec government to support 13 projects within that hub and that includes the purchase of an IBM quantum computer, which is the fourth outside of the U.S.

This hub will facilitate the creation of new quantum start-ups, while facilitating multi-level collaboration between vocational institutions, colleges and the university where problem-based learning and the project-based approach will serve as a reference framework for developing innovative learning situations. This initiative will play a key role in attracting and retaining talent in companies, while boosting direct investments from abroad.

The second example here is Québec Quantique, which I am the lead of. This initiative came to life to address, among others, the topics that I covered here today but on a provincial level. We are more than willing to collaborate with the rest of Canada to become more cohesive with international collaborations. Some initiatives, for example, that we are involved with are missions abroad. We were recently in New York with a Quebec mission, and we're about to go to Europe along with the federal mission in Germany. We will do a Quebec mission this spring as well in France and the Netherlands.

We're organizing a big quantum hackathon in June 2022 that aims to bridge or at least explore the gap between technical and business solutions. It's open to everyone in Canada, and similar editions will take place in Chicago and in France with QuantX. We've also offered training to Quebec delegation representatives and provided communication tools for them to promote the sector abroad. We're willing to do the same for Canadian embassies. Québec Quantique offers a common brand and central communication hub for basic educational information, news, events and even open positions in Quebec in the sector.

Now on to my first topic, talent.

The true quantum advantage lies in the talent available within an ecosystem. We need to make sure that we develop, retain and attract talented individuals to the quantum sector in Canada. Currently, although universities are doing a great job at training tomorrow's workforce in this field, a lot of that talent doesn't stay in Canada. It often leaves for bigger markets that offer more interesting conditions. The federal government can help in sponsoring programs to derisk the path towards entrepreneurship for students in the sector. This would also play a double duty in supporting the creation of more start-ups in the sector.

The Government of Canada has a high rejection rate for visa applications in many priority markets, particularly in French-speaking Africa. Immigration policies and processes must be adapted to facilitate international mobility rather than blocking it.

Moreover, the quantum science and technology community must address a glaring lack of diversity. Recruiting international students and workers has a central role to play in mitigating Canada's talent shortage.

Talent also needs to be seen in a broader spectrum as it involves people, such as me, who do not have an academic background related to quantum sciences but who can bring value to the sector. Companies and ecosystems won't be able to thrive solely on Ph.D.'s, and an effort to increase the basic knowledge of business leaders is essential to speed up the adoption of quantum technologies by industries.

Now I'll move on to my second topic. To attract companies in starting quantum-related projects, it would be necessary to highlight the possible applications and industries that could benefit from participating in this field. Use cases with a marketable approach rather than a tech push approach is a must in attracting companies to the sector. Beyond the business leaders, companies and potential users need employees who can understand what quantum can actually mean to them and help them integrate it into their business. Companies outside the field are more or less aware of the possibilities of quantum tech for their sector.

Start-ups would like to see an effort made to democratize the subject and, thus, facilitate their approach to potential customers and suppliers. Some are struggling with issues related to better understanding their potential market, knowing the players in the industry and identifying their first customers.

To conclude, the Canadian national quantum strategy comes at a critical time when investments, both from the private sector and governments, are accelerating. Canada must be agile and make the right strategic decisions to remain relevant and at the forefront of quantum sciences and technologies. Continuing to fund existing programs is a great start, but more needs to be done. Some funds should be allocated toward provincial ecosystem efforts and for a common Canadian ecosystem.

There are many key players and interesting quantum initiatives in Canada right now, but more cohesion among the provinces and various local ecosystems would help to boost the impact Canada can have on the international scene. As a country, we're often listed in the top five, but it's a fragile position if we don't invest adequately in the sector. Making the right decisions today will ensure that Canada gets to reap the social and economic benefits deriving from the development of this promising sector for generations.

As mentioned by Raymond Laflamme at a previous meeting last week, this is a marathon rather than a sprint, and sufficient long-term investments will be extremely important in this global quantum race.

I'm sorry if I spoke very quickly.

I'd love to thank you for the opportunity to talk here today.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you very much, Mr. Gagnon-Gordillo.

We'll now move to our first round of questions, with MP Gray for six minutes.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all of the witnesses for being here today.

My first questions are for Dr. Brassard.

You mentioned in your testimony that all security, on which the Internet and others are based, with the algorithms currently in place will collapse due to quantum computing and that it's very serious. You referred to “harvest now”, and you were talking about storage, going back and what would become public.

Can you describe what that means quickly? Are you referring to deleted messages or deleted emails? What exactly does that mean, if you don't mind?

[Dr. Gilles Brassard]

“Harvest now and encrypt later” means there's no protection on the Internet that prevents all the data packets that go around everywhere around in the world from being intercepted. They can continue on their way, so it's not noticeable, but you can take them and store them. That's what “harvest now” means. You can harvest at the moment all the information that goes on the Internet, even though some of it is protected by cryptographic systems in the current cryptographic infrastructure.

Those that are currently protected maybe—I only say “maybe”, because we don't know. Nobody knows how to decrypt them today without knowing the key. This information that is harvested includes all you'll need to decrypt it later when a quantum computer becomes available.

When there's a full-scale quantum computer, which we, hopefully, don't have yet, but there's no guarantee.... Maybe there is one running in some agency's basement somewhere. In the system, there is no full-scale quantum computer yet today, but there will be one. There is no doubt at the moment that full-scale quantum computers will finally become a reality. At that time, all of this information that has already been harvested can be taken back and decrypted retroactively.

That's what I meant when I said that everything that's been on the Internet will become an open book. There's no point trying to save the past. It's gone forever.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Great. Thank you so much. We have limited time here, so I want to get through a few more questions.

How soon do you think this could be looming? Where do you think the biggest threats would be from, potentially?

[Dr. Gilles Brassard]

“When” is a very difficult question. There are so many technological challenges before this can be achieved.

I'm a theoretician, so I'm not the right person to ask. However, there are some people who are more knowledgeable than me, like Michele Mosca—who, by the way, should have been invited to this committee if he hasn't been. He is the most vocal person about this threat. He thinks that the priority is 1 and 2, and that within 10 years we will have this capability.

I think I can guarantee—

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you for that.

Do you believe governments, as well as institutions like banks, schools, hospitals, social media platforms and apps businesses, are all aware of this emerging security risk from quantum computing?

[Dr. Gilles Brassard]

They're probably not.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Okay. That's a fair answer.

What should be done to increase awareness and set off the alarm bells to ensure that they're ahead of the curve in protecting Canadians' security and privacy?

[Dr. Gilles Brassard]

There needs to be education.

There is no magic bullet. People are not sufficiently aware of the threat, and when they are told, they might panic.

It's like global climate change. I know that time is limited, but trying to fix the issue will cost money but nothing near as much as it will cost if we don't do anything, again, as with global climate change. I'm talking about the weather, of course.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you.

What kind of threat to national security could this pose?

[Dr. Gilles Brassard]

It depends what cryptographic system they are actually using. If they are depending on the systems that were developed in the eighties perhaps, then it is very much a threat. If they're using something else that they're not telling us about, then perhaps national security people have already developed stuff that would not be vulnerable to quantum computing. There's no way I can tell.