Industry Committee on April 5th, 2022

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

I think this is all very good advice for legislators. If any panellists have more advice to add on quantum ethics that's beneficial to legislators, please send it to us afterwards.

Dr. Brassard, since I have you at the mike, I have a very specific question.

What's your opinion on what quantum computing will do to the cryptocurrency field? We've seen quite a bit of hype in that field.

[Dr. Gilles Brassard]

I think the two worst abominations of computer science this century have been Facebook and Bitcoin. That's just my personal opinion.

When I say Bitcoin, I don't mean that I have anything against anonymous cash, which I think can be used for bad things, but also for good things. That's not the debate. The debate is how much Bitcoin has wasted resources, like farms—

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

Bitcoin or cryptocurrencies will still exist after the—

[Dr. Gilles Brassard]

Sorry. To answer your question, some cryptocurrencies, like bitcoin, as it currently stands, will completely bite the dust as soon as a quantum computer is available, for two reasons.

One is that it uses, fundamentally, digital signatures, which as such is not necessarily broken by quantum computing if it's implemented properly, but it uses specifically an RSA-type digital signature, if I'm not mistaken. That is broken with a quantum computer. The entire so-called blockchain will be broken as soon as a quantum computer is available, when the root is protected by RSA signatures. That's one thing.

The other thing is that cryptocurrencies are based on the notion of proof of work. They claim that in order to mine coins, you need to work for so much time. They claim there is a fundamental obligation to work for so much time or do so much work in order to mine a new coin. This is not true because quantum computing would allow us to mine coins much more efficiently, although only quadratically more efficiently. It's back to the NP-hard question. Still, quantum computers would break the basic assumption of the proof of work that is behind most cryptocurrencies.

This doesn't mean that cryptocurrencies are dead. It means the way they are currently implemented will completely bite the dust when a quantum computer becomes available.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you very much.

Go ahead, Mr. Deltell.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to our committee. This is an exceptional panel of witnesses. Thank you very much for your input, and rest assured that your testimony is very helpful to our study.

Dr. Brassard, I'd like to talk to a little bit about the Montreal company you mentioned earlier, which can build quantum computers.

Can you tell us more about that without, of course, giving away any secrets?

[Dr. Gilles Brassard]

First of all, I wouldn't have any secrets to give away, because I don't have any privileged information about it. All I know is that the company is called Anyon Systems, and its slogan is We make quantum computers.

I've had the opportunity a few times to listen to presentations by representatives of this company, but I don't know them personally. All I can say about them is that they seem serious. However, I haven't tried this company's products, so I can't say whether they're any good or not.

However, they seem quite serious about building quantum computers on a small scale, at least for now, but building enough to do interesting experiments.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Dr. Brassard, I think I heard you say earlier that you had already rented prototypes for experiments or that prototypes could be rented.

Did I understand correctly?

[Dr. Gilles Brassard]

I have never rented anything like this. I personally have never experimented with an actual quantum computer. I know I could if I wanted to, but I never have.

It is possible to rent time on a quantum machine from companies such as IBM and Rigetti. Several U.S. companies allow users to rent time on a quantum machine. For research purposes, user time is even free, to some extent, for smaller operations.

I don't know if Anyon Systems' first quantum computer is already available. I do know that the company is working on it and that its planning, in the next year or two at the most, to have quantum computers available for purchase. In fact, you can already place an order.

To be honest, I'm not familiar enough with this company to be able to talk about it more specifically.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

I'd like to come back to the issues of security, privacy and confidentiality. You explained the difference between these three aspects very well.

You said that in 10 years, quantum computers could allow people to access information that is currently protected, either through our emails or websites.

Isn't there a way to—

[Dr. Gilles Brassard]

They could have retroactive access.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

If these computers are so powerful, can we ensure that the safeguards are as powerful as they are?

[Dr. Gilles Brassard]

This is absolutely impossible. The important thing to understand is that it's too late. The information I'm talking about has already been stored by future wrongdoers. I'm not just talking about bad guys, because it could also be police.

In any event, the information I'm talking about has been circulated on the Internet and has already been stored. There's nothing to stop anybody who has a quantum computer and has stored this information in the past from just bringing it out of mothballs, if I can put it that way, and decrypting it retroactively.

You can't save information that has already been intercepted. You can only try to save future information. It's not a question of inventing technology to produce information. What we're talking about here is information that wasn't properly produced and that was circulated. If it has been saved, there's nothing more to do.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you, Dr. Brassard.

Ms. Ippersiel, you said that there were eight quantum projects under way in Quebec.

Without giving away any secrets, could you give us an example of what is being done and talk about the funding required and the collaboration between the private and public sectors, among other things?

[Marie-Pierre Ippersiel]

I can give you an example of a non‑confidential project between SBQuantum, which specializes in magnetometer technologies, and Solmax, a company operating in the environmental sector. The aim of the project is to use quantum magnetometer technologies to increase the reliability of fault detection in various buried structures that may contain contaminants. I think it's a great project, with the Quebec government investing $747,000 out of a total budget of $1.5 million. The two companies have also invested in this project. So it's a great example of a project funded through a call for projects from the Government of Quebec.

Calls for projects are very interesting because there are different parts to them. It is possible to support a start‑up, an SME, a project involving two companies like the one I just mentioned, or a project involving one or more companies in the research community.

I know it's not very attractive, but I have a fairly large list of project titles here. It includes a project to develop diamond synthesis processes for applications in quantum technology. This is always done at room temperature, as it has been understood that diamond can be a quantum material.

So these are the kinds of projects we have. I invite you to visit the Québec Quantique website. As Mr. Gagnon‑Gordillo knows very well, for each of the projects funded, particularly between two companies or between research centres and companies, there is a kind of sheet that explains the objective, the problem to be solved and the amounts invested.

For some of the projects, there is sometimes a counterpart, beyond the Quebec government's investment, that is, top‑up funding from granting agencies such as NSERC.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, Ms. Ippersiel.

Mr. Fillmore, you have five minutes.

[Andy Fillmore, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

Thanks, Chair.

Also, thanks to the witnesses today. You're painting an increasingly legible picture of a very complex landscape, and we're very grateful for that.

We've heard a lot about security, and in rather dire tones at times, and I'd like to change that a bit.

I want to come to you, Dr. Hall. It's nice to see you. I don't know if I'm your MP, but I am Dalhousie University's MP and it's very nice to see you with us today.

I went to your research website before the meeting today and was moved by the young people you are working with and how many there are, by their smiles and by the interest that is clear in the photographs you've posted there. Obviously, their imagination has been captured by something. They're thinking of the future. They're working towards something. It made me think of the 1964 New York World's Fair, where GE had “The World of Tomorrow”, the vision of tomorrow, on how electricity and gasoline and cars were going to change the world.

I wonder if we could turn to a more optimistic outlook. As you said, Dr. Hall, maybe it's not necessary that Canadians understand the technology, but they should understand why it's important. Can we talk with the panellists a bit about finding your inner future and where is all of this going, and how quantum computing or hybrid solvers are going to make our lives better?

[Dr. Kimberley Hall]

I do want to say that in the area of recruiting students and exciting students about this field, it's just not that difficult. I must say that we have some advantage over some other fields in the fact that quantum mechanics is so intrinsically interesting that I find the spectrum of students who are interested in this area varies from those who want to change the world, which this can do, to those who just find quantum mechanics interesting. Because you have that full spectrum of applied to extremely basic, I find this is an area in which it's really not that hard to excite students.

It's extremely important that we do excite students to go into this area, and it is important that we collaborate together as institutions to make sure that these people stay, as has been discussed many times. It's particularly important to reach people outside of the students who are already interested.

I made the point during my speech that some of the shorter-term applications, like sensing, are a lot easier to explain than NP-hard problems. I have watched all of these meetings and it is taking a lot of meetings to convey that quantum cryptography has to be the future of security. I do think there tends to be a longer-term perspective taken whenever somebody is trying to solve quantum computing, but if you can very easily solve quantum sensing, this is an area on which people should focus in terms of trying to excite people about this area.

[Andy Fillmore, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

If you were going into a grade 8 science classroom—maybe you visit such classrooms—and if you were trying to recruit people to think about a career to follow in your footsteps, what would you say to excite them about the future? How would you sell quantum computing to them?

[Dr. Kimberley Hall]

I would sell that it's a privilege to have a job where you can think about things like deep mathematics and still do something that's useful for a possible application. This can appeal to people who vary from the small academic people who just want to play with stuff to people who actually want to change the world.

A lot of today's youth want to change the world, so it is critical to explain how quantum can change the world as part of the pitch. A lot of people are interested in energy for very good reasons, but quantum can change the world just as much as developing solar cell material can change the world. You can use a quantum computer to design solar cell material and you can use quantum spectroscopy to study energy materials.

It is really important to appeal to all of the different aspects that motivate people to go into a field. Changing the world and doing cool science covers it.

[Andy Fillmore, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

Thank you very much, Dr. Hall.

Have I any time left?

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

No.

[Andy Fillmore, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

Okay. Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you.

Mr. Lemire, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.