Industry Committee on April 5th, 2022

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you.

What policies would government now be looking at developing in order to counter some of these looming potential security risks?

[Dr. Gilles Brassard]

I think there should be a culture of not encouraging banks, enterprises or what have you that do not migrate to quantum-safe technologies. If they don't want to make the effort, then they should not be trusted and people should not do business with them. If there is a consensus on withdrawing not only federal support, then that will require education of the customers. If customers understand they should keep away from vendors who are not protecting them, then perhaps that would foster a faster reaction.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you very much.

That's all the time we have.

We'll now move to MP Gaheer for six minutes.

[Iqwinder Gaheer, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for making time for this committee.

My first question is for Mr. Brassard.

I'm especially interested in the introduction between finance and quantum computing.

How are private businesses, especially those in the finance sector, preparing for the coming risks and opportunities posed by quantum cryptography?

[Dr. Gilles Brassard]

In the financial sector if there is a leak of confidential data, that's a serious threat, of course; I should have said that.

However, if you can decrypt it later, it's not entirely bad, because sometimes if you can decrypt in 10 years something that came out today, maybe it's not serious. It's only a threat if the information is decrypted at the time when it is still relevant, which in the financial sector could mean only a fairly short period of time later, if I understand your world. As soon as a quantum computer is available, if financial transactions that should be kept secret become an open book to competition, that could be serious. If it involved other countries, it could be a serious problem.

Quantum computing may offer good things for the financial sector. It is conceivable that quantum algorithms would be able to solve some problems in the financial sector more efficiently than classic computers can. We should not think of quantum computers as being evil. They are in fact mostly good as long as they're used for good reasons, like most other things. Now we're afraid of their use for bad purposes, but they have much more potential for good in the longer term.

[Iqwinder Gaheer, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

That's great.

Thank you.

My next question is for Madam Ippersiel.

What limitations are there to advance material research faced with classical computers? What solutions can quantum computing provide in that area?

[Marie-Pierre Ippersiel]

Could you repeat the question, please?

[Iqwinder Gaheer, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

I will, happily.

What limitations does advanced material research face with classical computers? What solutions can quantum computing provide?

[Marie-Pierre Ippersiel]

Thank you for the question.

I'm not a materials expert, but I have a team that specializes in this area. Quantum computing will essentially accelerate the development of new materials. We mustn't lose sight of this. Twenty years ago, it could take 10 to 15 years to develop materials. I am exaggerating a bit, but you can see the extent of the problem. Quantum computing, and the quantum field in general, will accelerate the materials discovery process.

Similarly, we will be able to identify the physical or functional properties we want to discover for new materials. With quantum computing, we will be able to build on that to accelerate the development of new materials. I feel that's a major advantage.

I will come back to advanced equipment, because that's something very dear to us at PRIMA Québec. Advanced equipment is important. It's available in many university departments and colleges in Canada. However, not only do you need access to it, but you also need the staff with the skills to use it. This is true for what I would call classical materials, which are developed by way of existing measures and resources, but also for the quantum computing sector.

Does that answer your question?

[Iqwinder Gaheer, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

That definitely helps. Thank you.

My final question is for Dr. Chong.

I'm looking at the introduction between quantum computing and medical data. How is quantum computing going to improve the analysis of medical data and what benefits could be fully realized from that?

[Dr. Jaron Chong]

The way I would make the metaphor effective is that the kinds of calculations that are posing these security risks depend on the specific problem. It can potentially be, as was often said in the previous answers, vastly accelerated.

In any experiment, in any new product development, and in any new AI development, there is always a component that is dedicated to computation. But not just computation, like you push a button, and you create a system out of that. A lot of the experimentations, hyperparameter optimizations, and trying different settings of a model while you're training it, all consume vast amounts of energy and time.

There is some theoretical work that would suggest that if we can convert some of these training problems for neural networks into a quantum computable problem, the same benefits that you would have for decrypting an encrypted message could actually be applied for the training of a neural network. That would enable you to run multiple computations simultaneously and vastly accelerate your training time.

The emphasis from our original opening statement was that this was just one component of the greater health care application, but it was a substantial part of it. Some of those resources, some of those calculations, are only accessible to the largest, best funded public institutions and private companies.

The ability to vastly accelerate, by several orders of magnitude, these kinds of computations is going to make what was previously hard maybe a little bit easier, and what was previously impossible, now possible.

Stepping outside of the field of radiology for a second, many of the things within them, like proteomics and genetics research, involve even larger degrees of analysis, drug discovery, and drug development, which involves protein folding. Things and applications like that, that are extremely expensive and very difficult to perform now, may become much faster. This is going to enable a whole new generation of potential treatments and potential AI systems.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Lemire, you now have the floor for six minutes.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Dr. Brassard, let me begin by saying that it's an honour to welcome you to the committee. My goodness, you have such an impressive resumé.

In your opinion, what will the initial applications of quantum technology be?

What could we do in terms of the energy transition? Are there opportunities in electric vehicles, for example?

[Dr. Gilles Brassard]

In my view, quantum cryptography will definitely be the first application. It's not for the future, because it's already functional. As I said, China is taking it very seriously. So it's a real application that's already functional for protecting information.

With respect to quantum computing, quantum computers, the first application will likely be to simulate physical systems. Physicist Richard Feynman foresaw this application in 1981, when he introduced the concept of the quantum computer. The way he saw it, a quantum computer would have the power needed to simulate a quantum system in real time. In particular, that would include simulating a protein—we know that protein can fold—and facilitating the development of targeted drugs. I believe this will be one of the initial applications of quantum technology.

I'm sorry, but I don't see any potential applications in connection with quantum computing as far as electric vehicles go.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you.

Do you favour one development model over another in the field of quantum computing?

If there were a government strategy to put forward, what would your priorities be?

Also, could we hear what you have to say about existing needs in the field?

[Dr. Gilles Brassard]

I would say that the most important thing is to let researchers expand their imaginations, because that's what makes real progress possible. As the physicist Einstein said:

“Imagination is more important than knowledge.”

The more you tell people what to do, the less progress you can make in the long run. So it's very important to let fundamental researchers choose for themselves and find out what's truly of interest. Some will be left in the dust, while others will make extraordinary discoveries. That's the only way to make serious progress, to make the quantum leap, if I can put it that way, as opposed to just developing the technology in small steps.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

The Quebec government has announced plans to invest heavily in research and development, and has designated two key innovation zones, one in Bromont and the other in Sherbrooke. The Ontario government has done the same thing in that province, and several announcements have been made about this elsewhere in Canada.

Do you get the impression that money is being sprinkled all over the place and that it should instead be spent on certain aspects of quantum computing? We are talking about a $360 million investment over the next seven years.

You've been in this field for a long time. Do you feel this is an appropriate way to support the development of the industry?

[Dr. Gilles Brassard]

It depends on what you want to do. You may want to either develop a quantum computer or you may want to develop a quantum Internet, which another speaker mentioned. A quantum Internet would connect all countries, even the whole Earth, to be linked by a quantum network in the same way as the Internet today. If we're going to be able to do that, it's going to take a lot of resources, and it has to be coordinated—although that goes a little bit against what I was saying earlier. We have to have targeted projects and allocate a lot of resources to them.

At the same time, we also need to give some more resources to basic researchers like me, who are not connected to industry, so that they can continue their research and, with a little luck, make some fundamental discoveries. It's necessary to play both sides at the same time.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Last week, Dr. Simmons warned us to prepare for a quantum revolution. According to the government, quantum cryptography will be able to break current cryptographic mechanisms.

Do you think our industry is preparing adequately?

What are the challenges facing companies, particularly private companies, as a result of the arrival of new technologies?

[Dr. Gilles Brassard]

First, there is a small misinterpretation because quantum cryptography does not in any way serve to break the cryptographic mechanisms currently in use. Quantum cryptography provides an alternative, which is unquestionably secure, as has been demonstrated.

That said, conventional cryptography and quantum cryptography can be used not against each other, but together toward the same goal, which is the protection of privacy and confidentiality.

The danger to conventional cryptography is the quantum computer, not quantum cryptography. We hope that no one knows how to build it, or at least that there isn't one that's already working. However, since the 1990s, we have known how it could be used to break cryptographic systems underlying Internet security or pseudo‑security today.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

This is a little outside of my comfort zone, but I'll ask you one last question.

When do you think this computer will be built?

[Dr. Gilles Brassard]

As I said, we can't know. It's really

a guessing game.

The fear is that it will be built within 10 years. It's not guaranteed, but there's a good chance it will be, and 10 years from now is tomorrow.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I note that you used the word “fear”.

Thank you very much, Dr. Brassard.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, Dr. Brassard and Mr. Lemire.

Mr. Masse, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to our witnesses.

I'll start with Mr. Brassard and then move to other witnesses to get their input as well.

I am curious about cybersecurity. Currently, we see some companies and even some public institutions paying out ransoms for material, and we have a lack of laws related to that. You don't even have to disclose your hacking and payments and so forth.

I want to get a general sense of that field and how that might change. I know it's a little more theatrical, but perhaps I can get that. Other witnesses should please jump in soon after Mr. Brassard. I am curious about this. Cybersecurity has been something I've been pushing, along with fraud and a number of different things.

Please, Mr. Brassard, can you start the conversation on that?