Industry Committee on April 26th, 2022

[Chris Bates]

Thank you for the question.

As I indicated, there were new investments in the credential recognition program. It a bit more than doubles the program over the next couple of years, ramping up once we fully implement it.

What we focus on with the program are a few things. Number one is getting skilled newcomers work experience right away in their occupation. Number two is looking at regulatory changes and supports to facilitate getting their credentials recognized. Maybe I'll just pause there to also answer your other question with regard to fraud.

Looking after that is a provincial-territorial area of jurisdiction, which is often further delegated down to the regulators. Part of the work that they do is to ensure, through follow-ups and looking at credentials and through tests and so forth, that people actually have the skills that they studied.

The last thing I'll point out on the foreign credential program is that we offer things like loans and support services to help skilled newcomers cover the costs of their credential recognition process.

[Iqwinder Gaheer, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

Great. Thank you so much for that.

My second question is for Mr. Massie.

You talked about addressing the barriers that businesses can often face. We recently had a round table discussion with Minister Tassi and small businesses from Mississauga. One common theme was that businesses have a hard time figuring out what government programs are there and then navigating the applications for those programs.

Could you speak a little bit about whether there's anything more the government can do to make government programs that are already existing more accessible to small businesses? These businesses often don't have the infrastructure to navigate long applications that the big corporations do.

[Etienne-René Massie]

Thank you for your question.

The government has made a few investments, through a few different approaches, to help businesses get information and then work towards accessing programs.

I would draw your attention to the Canada Business app, which is an application designed for small business owners to help them navigate through the different government programs and services that are in place.

There's also the Canada business benefits finder, which is a website that organizations and businesses can go to and enter some key details about their business and the types of supports they're looking for. Then they will get the roster of supports that will be provided to them. Those supports are not only from ISED but from across the federal government. We also work with provinces and territories to include those services.

I would mention that the Canada Business app consolidates information on licensing and requirements from across jurisdictions in one place, so it's a great tool that anyone opening a new business can access to get information.

The last piece is that in the design of calls for proposals, depending on the target audience and when we go down closer to smaller businesses on our main streets, we look at the criteria and how we develop our guides and our application forms. That's to find ways to make them as common sense and clear as we can and help those small businesses that, as you say, do not have the resources and time to commit to doing that among all of the other challenges and problem-solving that they're doing daily.

[Iqwinder Gaheer, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

Thank you for that answer. It's very informative.

My last question is open to either of you. It's a bit of a pivot.

The government has cited modernization and reform of the Competition Act as a way to promote growth and affordability. What specific measures in the Competition Act are currently being considered?

[Martin Simard, Senior Director, Corporate, Insolvency and Competition Policy, Marketplace Framework Policy Branch, Department of Industry]

Thank you for the question.

The government has decided to proceed in a kind of two-step process. In the mandate letter, the Minister of Industry was tasked with doing a comprehensive review of competition policy. In the budget that was just released a couple of weeks ago, there was a commitment to do this in two phases.

First, there is a down payment of legislative amendments that Étienne gave a preview of in his opening remarks. These will include fixing loopholes in the law, tackling wage fixing and drip pricing more directly, modernizing access to justice and the act's penalty regime, and better adapting the law to today's digital reality.

The budget says this is to be followed by a broader and more comprehensive review of the act. There I think we will be looking at potentially more structural or fundamental changes.

[Iqwinder Gaheer, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

Great. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, Mr. Gaheer and Mr. Simard.

Mr. Lemire, you now have the floor for six minutes.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for your testimony, Mr. Bates. I also want to thank you for being with us today.

I would like you to tell us about how we can match workers' skills to companies' needs.

Quebec is the only province in Canada that is responsible for its workforce policy. Quebec has put a workforce ecosystem in place that includes the ministère du Travail, de l'Emploi et de la Solidarité sociale, the ministère de l'Éducation, the Conseil du patronat du Québec, Manufacturiers et Exportateurs du Québec, the Fédération des chambres de commerce du Québec, and other organizations.

All these entities work together to analyze labour market needs and organize the implementation of policies. Sectoral committees of the Quebec government and sectoral associations of enterprises meet to identify present and future workforce needs and determine how they are going to fill them. In Quebec, our ecosystem produces all the studies needed for determining workforce needs. As a result, it's my opinion that the labour market impact assessment, or LMIA, is a pointless duplication.

Would Quebec's ecosystem be even more complete if the Temporary Foreign Worker Program, the TFWP, were repatriated? That is actually a question that relates more to labour policy than to immigration policy.

On what grounds can you justify producing an LMIA in Quebec?

[Chris Bates]

Thank you very much for the question.

We have recently launched the Sectoral Workforce Solutions Program, which does look at how we support a broader labour market context. The program really tries to be national in scope in looking at how we support economies of scale with small and medium-sized enterprises and how we can develop common tools for curriculum that could be used across jurisdictions to support workers.

We also look at other things. How do we successfully support employers and workers to make the transition to a low-carbon economy? We look at how to equip the workers, through economies of scale, best practices and so forth, so that we're prepared to meet the needs of workers for the low-carbon economy.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

There are glaring needs because of the labour shortage, and this is particularly true in a region like mine, where we have lived with this labour shortage for 15 years. From what I see on your website, the processing time for LMIA applications is 53 business days. That is practically three months.

These processing times are in addition to the risk an entrepreneur takes by looking for international solutions. From what I have learned from meetings with several of these entrepreneurs, it is sometimes necessary to invest $10,000 or $15,000 to hire a single foreign worker. As well, there are a lot of risks involved. There is obviously no guarantee, and the need to produce an LMIA causes additional delays.

It is no longer necessary to prove that when you post a help wanted notice in a restaurant, in agriculture, in mining or in numerous other fields, there are no applicants. This is really a major problem and we are realizing that in many cases, the waiting times pile up.

I will add that for francophones, there seems to be a labour shortage even within the department responsible for producing the LMIAs. Waiting times are significant.

Mr. Bates, if you are not able to produce LMIAs within the times published on your website and in your publications, what alternative do companies have?

There are even cases in my riding where applications have been rejected because the LMIA was not received on time.

What is the situation regarding the service given to businesses at present? Are there backlogs?

[Chris Bates]

We would have to get back to you with more information from our colleagues. Part of the reason we made new investments is to facilitate and expedite some of these processes so that there are reduced times for employers and for workers as well.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I'm happy to hear you say that.

Does the TFWP meet the current needs of businesses?

Would you be prepared to adjust, and to modify the program?

[Chris Bates]

Again, we would have to get back to you with some additional information on the temporary foreign worker program. Part of what we're doing through the other suite of skill investments we're doing is to prepare Canadians to the extent possible to meet the employment skills demands that we have in the labour market in order to support employers to be more productive and fully meet their goals as well.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I have concerns about the ecosystem I was talking about earlier. What we need to aim for is a better presence of all government services outside urban centres.

How can we offer coverage that is likely to benefit businesses and meet regional economic development needs?

What complementary and useful role can you play in the circumstances?

At present, are there at least discussions happening with the various bodies, in connection with the labour market in Quebec.

[Chris Bates]

We are meeting with our colleagues in Quebec. We are meeting with, in fact, all of our federal-provincial-territorial colleagues to discuss new measures that were in the budget and how to make sure that we're as complementary as possible. As we roll these out, we're trying to look at best practices in different jurisdictions so as to not reinvent the wheel and to allow those to be utilized in other jurisdictions as well. We are communicating and we are making sure, to the extent possible, that we don't duplicate and that we complement existing programs.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Bates.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, Mr. Bates.

We'll move now to Mr. Masse for six minutes.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here.

The first question I would like to ask is with regard to border communities. What special programs are there—or are there any—for border communities?

The pandemic was obviously.... It continues to plague border communities. Now we have passport delays, for example, for the exodus of business and with respect to tourism, but it's not returning for us in many sectors here.

What can you say or highlight? What are the plans to deal with that? Clearly there are winners and losers, depending on what industry you are in, but tourism has really been hit hard and will have another difficult summer. What can you provide for small and medium-sized businesses in the tourism sector and other border communities?

Mine, for example, is on a peninsula. We just had to basically grin and bear it all those years. Now it's a little bit open, but it's still a challenge to get those people back.

[Etienne-René Massie]

You are right that the tourism industry was the first impacted, and it will probably have one of the longest recoveries as we come out of the pandemic. The government has invested to sort of help the tourism industry through the tourism relief fund, and through the pandemic, the regional development agencies implemented the regional relief and recovery fund, the RRF. That was able to be there to help industries.

We all hope that this summer will be better. I think the government will continue to sort of engage with the tourism sector. I know that the tourism sector officials in the department have regular engagement with the tourism sector to better understand their needs, demands and pressures and to look at and explore what government programs can be there to help.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Has there been any work done with regard to advertising to Americans in outreach for ArriveCAN and new border processes? When the western hemisphere travel initiative was brought in, requiring Americans and Canadians to have passports to go back and forth, it created a change in the border culture, and it took a lot of advertising. Businesses were doing it to educate the other sides, back and forth. Is that going to happen here? I haven't seen anything whatsoever, and that's a bit of a concern of mine.

Even when we brought in marijuana in Canada, a riding like mine got at least an educational flyer. We did public awareness to make sure that people weren't going to be accidentally bringing it across the border and clogging the border up by accident and creating all kinds of problems. What's being done, especially for senior snowbirds and so forth, to educate and get people ready to use the new app system that's been put in place? Is there anything being planned for this summer? Reaching out is something we can actually control.

[Etienne-René Massie]

Thank you for the question.

The tourism industry has relayed the concern to us about the ArriveCAN app and the need to make sure that people understand and are aware of it. We are working with our tourism partners to see how we can get that message out more broadly.

I do know that Destination Canada, which is the Crown corporation responsible for destination marketing to Canada, has a range of advertising. They do campaigns. We can follow up with them to see if they are planning to do anything more targeted with regard to arrival and border crossings.

I do know that our colleagues at CBSA are also doing information, communication and awareness-raising on that front as well.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

That's good to hear.

I was just at the Windsor-Detroit border again. It's close to where I'm at. My poor colleagues at committee have heard many times about that.

I was just there with the minister. The CBSA officers have had so many changes, and new things are happening. Are we able to educate our citizens—seniors in particular, or persons with disabilities? The officers are having more trouble with that. I'm just not sure if we're reaching out enough to snowbirds or associations and so forth. We have Americans who are having a little bit of trouble with this. If we're doing better on it, that means fewer border backups and more efficiencies.

I just ask for a review of that, because it's really worthwhile. When we advertised for WHTI into the United States, it really helped a lot. It just unplugs things.

Mr. Chair, do I have any time left?

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

You have about a minute, Mr. Masse.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

I'll go quickly to Mr. Bates.

With regard to fraud, this committee actually did a study on fraud. The effects on small business was one aspect. Is there anything new happening with regard to that in protecting small and medium-sized businesses from fraud? There's a lot of targeting, especially of new Canadians and new Canadians with English as a second language. I'm just wondering if there's anything in there for that. I know it's a little bit more specific, but it is an interest of mine.

[Chris Bates]

I'm unable to answer that question. Fraud and SMEs are a bit outside of the scope of ESDC's responsibilities.