Industry Committee on April 26th, 2022

[Chris Bates]

I think that's part of what we're trying to do through programs like the sectoral workforce solutions program. It is to empower and enable employers to do more.

Again, there is a concrete example. If we're making a transition to a low-carbon economy, do employers know all the details of what the changes are and how it's going to happen? Part of what we're trying to do there is to develop tools, curriculum and other supports that can actually facilitate these investments by employers so that we can actually be leaders in the areas of the new economy.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Can I ask this with reference to the United States? In the U.S., they're struggling with inflation, as we are in Canada, but they've also seen a marked increase in wages for low-income workers, and we haven't seen that same increase.

Don't you think an expansion of the TFW program in particular...? I'm not talking about the global skills strategy or about addressing specific high-skills gaps, but when you have over one million unemployed Canadians who say they want to work, why are we expanding the TFW program? To put it bluntly, isn't that going to suppress low-income wage growth, contrary to what's happening in the U.S.?

[Chris Bates]

We would have to get our TFW colleagues to answer that.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

I appreciate that. Actually, that's probably the fairest. If you can have your colleagues with greater knowledge and expertise in that space provide an answer to that question in writing, that would be appreciated.

As a related question, you mentioned a couple of times an emphasis on the recognition of foreign credentials. It's incredibly important, and I'm glad to see the government address that particular problem. I've engaged in the past with the National Dental Examining Board of Canada. Due to the pandemic, as an example, there's been a backlog of tests. Tests have been cancelled and have had to be rescheduled. There's a backlog, not of recognizing foreign credentials per se, but of ensuring that the tests are in place. There's a whole swath of people who are ready to work in Canada, and it's the testing system that is getting in the way.

As a result, when you look at that $100 million and how it can be best allocated, are you in conversations specifically relating to testing capacity and ensuring that once people get through those tests and are ready to enter the workforce, we're expediting that process?

[Chris Bates]

The short answer is yes, we are looking at that. That's one of the key areas we are looking at, because it's a barrier to getting new entrants into the field, and in an expeditious manner. We're looking at structural initiatives. How do we simplify some of these testing procedures? How do we expedite it? How do we make it more seamless for the client?

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

I'll move to ISED for a second. There's a list of programs that were identified, such as the indigenous growth fund and the women entrepreneurship fund. There's a growth metric, and you were describing it as investments, that we ought to be concerned about, but there's also an equity metric that we ought to be concerned about. In relation to these programs, how do we measure success?

[Etienne-René Massie]

We are actively investing in a range of programs. We measure success by looking at the number of entrepreneurs who have been supported. We look at the longevity of the businesses that were supported, and how much employment they created.

That's sort of the economic spinoff—

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Every MP loves the Canada summer jobs program, because money comes directly into our ridings. However, I always worry about it, because we count jobs at eight weeks, and I prefer one job for 16 weeks versus two jobs for eight weeks, but the government likes to count more jobs, so it prefers jobs at eight weeks.

When you say measuring jobs, are we careful about the way we measure them?

[Etienne-René Massie]

When we support a business, we look to see how long, and how many jobs have been created on that front, or how many employees they have. We sometimes have metrics to measure the tenure of the job. Sometimes we look for... If we invest in 2020, we look down the road two years, three years, and see if there have been jobs that have been created and maintained over the course of that period.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

I'm out of time, so in writing, could you provide examples of how we're addressing supply chain issues in the sectors you specified in your opening remarks? Just a list of some examples would be very helpful for this committee.

Thanks for your time. I really appreciate it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you.

Mr. Lemire, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

In my riding, if a government promised jobs in an election campaign, it wouldn't be very credible. Our need isn't so much to create jobs as to have employees in our businesses to make our economy run.

With that said, I now want to talk about the Employment and Social Development Canada news release published on April 4, 2022.

In the Workforce Solutions Road Map, part of the Temporary Foreign Worker Program, the government announces that it wants to respond to labour shortages in Canada. It says that the government “will carefully monitor implementation and continually review the policies to ensure they are addressing real labour shortages without displacing Canadian workers.”

Mr. Bates, what is a false labour shortage, in this context?

[Chris Bates]

We're looking at all kinds of solutions. There's no one solution to the skills and labour shortages that we have. That's why we need a suite of programs, programs that not only support those who are in the labour market now but also look at the next generation and also look outside the country for talent and skills and bring them into the labour market.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

That news release also says: “Service Canada recently implemented a series of measures to increase capacity and expedite the processing of LMIA applications.” It seems to me that the way to expedite the processing of applications might be to abolish the LMIA step, especially in the Quebec context, where studies have already been done.

What obstacles do you want to eliminate, on your side, to expedite the processing of temporary foreign worker applications?

[Chris Bates]

We'll have to get a written communication to follow up on that question.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

The period for which an LMIA is valid will be raised from nine to 18 months. Before the pandemic, it was six months. Does that mean you will still need more time to process it?

How do LMIA analyses differ from the ones done by Quebec's sectoral workforce committees?

[Chris Bates]

Again, unfortunately, we'll have to get somebody to follow up on that answer.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

That's fine.

Thank you very much, Mr. Bates.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, Mr. Lemire.

Mr. Masse, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

One of the things about the temporary foreign workers that gives me concern at times is when there has been some outreach to other Canadians to do some of the work, there hasn't been transportation provided and there hasn't been the wage for it to be worthwhile to commute.

What type of studies have we done for individuals? For example, there's mention of students recovering from student education debt in small and medium-sized businesses. Have we done any work on that?

I represent a university and college, and I have some people who are opting out of doing some of that, because by the time they get their education in college and university and they have that debt, the market doesn't pay it back for decades. Some people are leaving skilled trades and other types of positions behind.

What types of studies are we doing on getting into student debt and paying it back if you go into the small and medium-sized business workforce?

[Chris Bates]

We'll have to get back to you on the studies themselves, as I'm not familiar with any currently within my portfolio.

We are offering loans and grants to apprentices. We have the Canada apprentice loan and we have numerous grants available to support apprentices. They are grants, so they don't have to be repaid. The other thing we offer through most of our programs is wraparound supports by removing barriers to those who want to participate, whether they are transportation costs or child care costs, etc.

Those are some of complementary things we do through some of our programming.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Maybe this would be good for an example. I know I have to be really quick here.

Could we get back on whether there are some metrics for either the loans or the grants and how long it's taking people who have gone through those processes and taken advantage of them to pay them back and get into the positive? I want to see whether they're effective or not.

My background is as an employment specialist for persons with disabilities. Sometimes what we used to do was measure how long it took to pay off the educational component, because that often decides why somebody would even go into the market. Perhaps we can follow up on that, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for your time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, Mr. Masse.

We'll move to Mr. Kram for five minutes.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for joining us today.

Mr. Massie, in one of the earlier lines of questioning, you were asked about the tourism sector, particularly with respect to border communities. Can you elaborate on what the main challenges are facing the tourism sector, particularly near the border?

[Etienne-René Massie]

The challenges that tourism operators in border communities are facing are similar to many of the challenges that tourism operators are facing. The most pressing concern we hear these days is about the access to people, employees and a workforce to be able to fulfill and respond to the demand that they're starting to see increase.

The other element that we are hearing from tourism operators is that for the past two years, revenues have been much lower. They have ongoing carrying costs with regard to investments that they made in the years going into the pandemic and they are continuing to carry those costs.

With regard to border communities more specifically, Mr. Masse mentioned the app earlier and making sure there is awareness of the app for people before they arrive. That's another big concern—making sure that there's awareness of that app for the visitors when they come to the border, in order to smooth the process through the border.