Industry Committee on June 17th, 2022

[Philip Somogyvari]

Thank you for the question.

LMIAs fall within the purview of ESDC, Employment and Social Development Canada. What I can say is that there have been facilitative measures arranged within the TFWP as it specifically pertains to Quebec. These were announced in August 2021. They include raising the cap on the low-wage TFWs a Quebec employer may hire and expanding the simplified process for accessing a labour market impact assessment to national occupation classification C, which is akin to what's already in place for classification levels A and B.

Just in general with respect to processing times and delays, I can speak directly for our department that, clearly, we don't want those processing time delays. We are working very hard to come back to our processing times for work permit issuance by the end of the year. That is the goal we have set. In that sense, clearly we are of the view as well that such delays are not good for business. Frankly, they're not good with respect to our department as well.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I'm happy to hear there is a desire to take action to reduce the delays in processing times. I would still like it if you could submit a report for Quebec, to include a table with the number of LMIA applications filed in all months in 2020, 2021, and, if possible, 2022, the number of decisions made, the number of positive and negative responses, and the number of suspended decisions. Then I would like the reasons why those LMIAs were refused in Quebec to be shown, with the number of refusals for those years and for each of those reasons.

In addition, given the labour shortage, which also seems to be affecting federal government departments, I would like it if you could submit a report on LMIA cases in Quebec that includes a table showing the number of employees who worked on examining LMIA applications in 2020 and 2021, the average time each employee spent on a case, and the number of cases that the department believes an employee should assess each week. I think that would help us understand why the process is so slow.

In addition, Ottawa's refusal to transfer the LMIA process to Quebec is purely political, in my opinion, and the federal government is making businesses in Quebec pay the price. There is nothing in the LMIA process that Quebec is not capable of doing and is not already doing through the Commission des partenaires du marché du travail. Obviously the federal government can issue the work permits and do the security checks. Those are its only responsibilities.

Why not recognize the labour market information, the LMI, and avoid these pointless duplications that result in wasted time and money for our SMEs, particularly if it would enable you to put your energy into other equally essential matters?

[Philip Somogyvari]

Thank you for the question. Your request for information has been noted. We'll contact ESDC.

With respect to both jurisdictions and the responsibilities, again, I'm not privy to conversations with respect to what is within each jurisdiction. What I can say is that IRCC works hard to abide by the letter and spirit of the 1991 Canada-Québec Accord, which sets out where there is concurrent jurisdiction over temporary and permanent immigration or whether there is sole selection authority in the case of economic permanent residency.

But the questions of the member are noted.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you.

I'm going to address another subject, one you talked about briefly. Just before the election, in mid-summer 2021, your department made unilateral changes to the TFWP, the Temporary Foreign Worker Program. The regulatory impact analysis statement provided by the department itself said:

The regulatory proposal identifies additional requirements and conditions to which employers must adhere. This means that officers in both departments would undertake new activities to verify that these additional requirements and conditions have been met. This additional work may result in an increase in processing time for LMIA applications, and would increase the overall processing time to conduct inspections for both the IMP and the TFWP.

Can you tell us briefly, because time is running out, how that decision was made in your department?

[Philip Somogyvari]

Thank you very much for the question. I think the member is referring to the prepublication of the inspections to protect vulnerable workers. I will say, in that respect, that both IRCC and ESDC take very seriously protecting workers from vulnerabilities and recognize that they have a right to the same provincial, territorial and federal employment standards that Canadians and permanent residents have.

In terms of the changes themselves, which I think have not received final approval, certainly it's our intention to be able to better protect foreign workers, whether they're under the temporary foreign worker program or the international mobility program, irrespective of jurisdiction, to ensure that they are receiving adequate wages and working conditions.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you very much.

We'll now move to Mr. Masse for six minutes.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, witnesses, for being here on a Friday.

I come from Windsor, Ontario, a border city, so my first question is going to be for Immigration.

Obviously, in a border city, especially with the volume of traffic—about 40,000 vehicles per day and about 40% of Canada's daily trade by land and rail come through here—we get a lot of refugees, especially during times when bodies in the United States try to push them outside their country, including some of the companies that were hired to actually move them from Florida and other places.

We also have a college, St. Clair College, and the University of Windsor, which use international students as part of the base for their educational systems. They come in from all over the world and are actively recruited.

We also have some of the highest numbers of temporary foreign workers in Canada, as does the area just outside my region. Some people live here and then travel every single day to work on mushroom farms and other types of greenhouses and agricultural industries.

We also have a shortage of skilled labour in the manufacturing sector. My office has already opened thousands of inquiries about immigration. About 30 to 40 per day come in here to us, so my question is this: How strategically wise was it to close the immigration office in the city of Windsor to the public and to those persons? How strategic was that and when will that be reviewed?

[Philip Somogyvari]

I will turn that over to my colleague, who might be able to speak more about our infrastructure and closures during the pandemic.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

This was actually closed before the pandemic. It's a facility on Walker Road that actually holds hundreds of people. It had ceremonies, which I attended for over a decade. It was closed, and people can no longer go there to get assistance. The doors have been barred, but the workers are still in there. I'm just wondering what the strategy was behind basically shutting people out from being able to inquire about things there, given the conditions that I've outlined here, which are well known and documented.

[Philip Somogyvari]

I'm afraid I don't have a response for the member, but we've taken note of the question and can get back to the committee.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

That's fair enough. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

It's a very serious issue. That's why I listed off the challenges here. The infrastructure exists and is still owned or being rented by the federal government. The employees are still in there, and people are being turned away.

The other question I have is that, since we have a shortage of labour, how strategic is it for someone....? For example, I have a single mom who is waiting for her humanitarian case to be completed. She is working with no problems, convictions or issues with regard to the Canadian economy and she is a taxpayer. She's being deported before her case can be appealed or reviewed, which will deprive us of another skilled person in the community in the health care system.

How strategic is it to deport people who are trying to get Canadian citizenship—and who are in active employment, when there are shortages in workplaces—before we finalize the decision about their citizenship in Canada?

[Philip Somogyvari]

Unfortunately, I don't have knowledge of this case, nor can I comment on those types of cases. Deportations—

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

It could be any case. Let's say somebody is waiting for their humanitarian and compassionate grounds case to be reviewed, but they're being deported. It could be not just here in my community but anywhere in Canada. It could be any type of a trade position that's filled during a labour shortage.

What is the strategy behind deporting a person from a job when we don't have a replacement for them—especially in sector where there might be even more of a shortage, like health care—and then having to bring that person back to Canada after breaking up the family? We might be sending a child who could be a Canadian citizen to a foreign country they've never visited before.

What's the strategy behind doing that?

[Philip Somogyvari]

Mr. Chair, I'm afraid I don't have an answer to that question.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

These are the things that your department is.... You talked about strategy. I'm wondering how that fits between dealing with a workforce....

The other thing I'd ask is this: What's the basis for limiting international students to 20 hours of employment per week? Maybe we can go to that policy. What's the strategy of that, given the fact that, again, we have a shortage of people?

Those international students pay such high tuition costs. Most are living in poverty at times, going to food banks or bringing over money just to get by. There have been increased levels of mental illness, depression and other types of issues, because some people think that they're all rich people coming over. That's not true. There are a lot of working-class students. What's the strategy of limiting them to 20 hours a week?

[Philip Somogyvari]

With respect to international students, the rationale behind the 20 hours per week recognizes that the students are primarily here to study. With respect to financial hardships, during the COVID pandemic, several facilitative measures were made for international students with regard to not only extensions but the post-graduate work program, which many students avail themselves of.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

The 20 hours is based upon a blanket policy. Has there been any consideration given to changing or having an exception to that?

I know many students who are Canadian who work more 20 hours a week, because of the cost of education. I would suggest that's probably not a number.... Especially when you get to the summer, March breaks and other breaks, they're working extra hours.

[Philip Somogyvari]

One of the requirements upon application to study in Canada is to demonstrate sufficient funds to be able to live and study over the course of the program in Canada.

Whether there's been any thought to changing the 20-hour-a-week limit, I can say that the department's constantly reviewing the rules of our different programs, especially with regard to the current context, which is the shortages in the labour market. The comments of the member are taken.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

I appreciate it.

I know I'm out of time, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank you. I'm not trying to be difficult, but I have a full-time caseworker dedicated to immigration alone in this office for the public. The seriousness of the situation is so bad. The government is now only allowing us to have five emails a day for inquiries, and then after that we have to go on the phones and put a staffer on there for hours, waiting on the line. This is a real thing that's happening.

In the cases I mentioned, we have to turn around every single day, because we get five emails allowed for contact per day. It's something that's not helpful for business, the community and, obviously, the people who we're serving.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, MP Masse. I think your comments resonate with every member around this table.

I'll now move to MP Hallan for five minutes.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Mr. Chair, I'm very sorry. I think there was a bit of a mix-up.

I believe we're going with Monsieur Deltell next.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Mr. Deltell, the floor is yours.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank the witnesses for being with us today. It is always good to debate issues that affect Canadians. Today we are talking, more specifically, about small businesses.

As members of Parliament, we are all being approached by entrepreneurs for help. Everyone is aware that we currently have a major problem in our economy that directly affects all small businesses: the labour shortage. No wave of a magic wand can solve this problem. As well, there is no single fact that can explain the labour shortage, and the problem exists around the world. However, there are things that can be done to accelerate certain processes.

Today, we have with us representatives of a number of organizations and departments: the Competition Bureau, Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada, Statistics Canada, and the Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat.

The subject I would like to address with the witnesses involves the representatives of the Department of Citizenship and Immigration more directly.

I think that all my colleagues, whatever their political allegiance, are having to deal with two main problems in their constituency offices. The first relates to passport applications and the second to immigration applications.

This week, Isabelle Turcotte-Genest, the constituency assistant who does a remarkable job in the constituency I represent, waited five hours and 20 minutes before she was able to speak with an officer to deal with a passport case. I have no doubt that my colleagues have all had cases like this in their own constituencies.

On the question of immigration, I'd like to address certain specific cases, but I will start with a case I learned about this morning. Walking on Parliament Hill to get to the West Block, where we are now, I happened on two tourists from Switzerland who were looking for some information. I introduced myself to them and we chatted a bit. It turned out that they had come to Canada to visit their son. He had obtained a visa and had come to discover the beauty and charm of our country, as many people do.

Why am I telling you this? You will understand shortly. Their son arrived on September 29, 2021, with a tourist visa that he has to renew every six months. Since Canada is a very welcoming country, the young man met his soulmate. That's good news. He also found a job, which is also a good thing. His employer wasn't a little neighbourhood restaurant, it was the Fairmont hotel chain. He was ready to work, but since he didn't have a work permit, he put his application in on November 9 of last year. He provided his biometric data and everything went well. But he has never received an answer to his application.

His work permit application was submitted on November 9, 2021, and seven months later, he still has not received an answer from the Immigration Department. Not only does he want to work, but he has also been selected by an employer, and not just any employer. He wants to settle here. His family has come to see him. All the ingredients for success are present. He is missing only one thing: efficiency on the part of the government of Canada.

My question is a bit blunt, but I will ask it anyway, since there are representatives of the Department of Citizenship and Immigration here today.

How is it that Canada, a G7 country, that employs hundreds of thousands of people, is not capable of handling a case like this, a case in which the person has all the necessary ingredients for success?

[Philip Somogyvari]

Thank you for the question.

Without any further knowledge about that case, I can speak in generality and reiterate what I said before unreservedly. Some of the delays with respect to processing temporary and permanent resident authorizations are unfortunate. We're working very hard to expedite those and return back to the processing time standards. While we're starting to come out the other end of the COVID-19 pandemic, the pandemic itself caused several challenges to offices, particularly where paper files were necessary and individuals couldn't go into the office, but also with respect to border restrictions. Right now the department is working hard and, based on the $85 million provided as part of the budget, is trying to return to those processing times.

With respect to client interaction, while the case that was raised by the member is, again, unfortunate, in terms of the client call centre, some of the innovations, including callback features, are meant to provide better client service to individuals. As well, the department is working on other client service tools, which would include things like being able to track one's application. Many of these are features that one would expect to be built into the platform modernization process that's being undertaken by the department.