Industry Committee on June 17th, 2022

[Greg Peterson]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, for the question.

Yes. We have done this in the past, and we've gotten some aspects of this in more real time. In our business conditions survey that we conduct in co-operation with the Canadian Chamber of Commerce, we found that in the fourth quarter of 2021 nearly 20% of all businesses felt that government regulations would be an obstacle for them over the next three months. This is variable and we'll continue to track it.

We have tracked aspects of this over time. The last time we did a comprehensive study on regulatory burden was, I believe, in the 2016 reference year. At that time.... I'm sorry, Mr. Chair. I don't have data immediately available to me, but in 2016 we did undertake a study to sort of understand what the regulatory burden faced by small businesses was, and we can make that information available to the committee.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Yes, if you could table that for the committee, that would be very helpful.

I wonder, Mr. Peterson, if you could speak in more general terms, then, on what will happen to the socio-economic well-being of the country when two-thirds of small business owners tell their children not to get into small businesses because of the burden of regulation. What will Canada look like in a generation or two if this trend continues?

[Greg Peterson]

Thank you for the question, Mr. Chair.

To be honest with you, I'm not entirely familiar with that study by the CFIB, so I'm probably not the best placed to interpret the results, but we'll continue to objectively measure what small businesses identify as the burden.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Thank you very much.

I would like to change gears now and move to the witnesses from IRCC.

All MPs' constituency offices help their constituents navigate different government programs, and the vast majority of the casework that I deal with in my office has to do with IRCC, particularly on just the amount of time it takes to go from the beginning of the process to the end, especially with temporary foreign workers and permanent resident applications. What is a typical processing time for those types of applications from start to finish? What opportunities are there to speed up the process?

[Philip Somogyvari]

Thanks, Chair.

It depends on the program. With respect to permanent residents, to provide an example, within our express entry program—which is skilled workers, the experience class, skilled trades and a portion of the provincial nominee programs—our service standards are six months in 80% of cases following the receipt of a full application.

Now, given some of the delays I've explained and some of the backlogs that were created during COVID, we're not at those processing times. We're well behind, and we're aware of this. With respect to express entry, however, it is our goal that once we reopen invitations under the express entry program, which is slated for July, we'll be able to return to a six-month standard for those applications and continue to work through the existing inventory of applications already received.

With respect to the issuance of work permits, similarly, the standard is 60 days. We're currently not at that standard, but we're working to get back to that standard as quickly as we can.

If you'd like more information, I might be able to turn to my colleague. Have I answered your question?

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Yes, and I believe I've just run out of time. Hopefully, one of the other MPs will pick up on that line of questioning.

Thank you very much.

It's over to you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, Mr. Kram, for your discipline.

I will now turn to MP Erskine-Smith for five minutes.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Thanks, Joël.

I want to stay with immigration. I want to start with the premise that the lack of housing affordability is a challenge to our competitiveness. It's straightforward. It's harder to attract individuals if we have unaffordable housing—unaffordable child care, as well, but let's stick with housing.

When you are looking at your strategic policy and planning, of which you're the director general, what conversations do you have with provincial counterparts to ensure that our immigration strategy is consistent with provincial housing strategies?

[Philip Somogyvari]

Indeed, housing affordability and availability are something that we have taken note of and that we take quite seriously, because as the member mentioned, this has an impact not only on the pace but the volume of immigrants we can let in. One of the important things we want for any immigrant is for them to become economically established in this country. Therefore, the lack of affordable housing is quite the concern.

We have tables with provinces and territories where, among other things, things like absorptive capacity in general are discussed, as well as the impact of immigration on infrastructure and housing, as well as schools and transportation. I can assure the member that these discussions are being had. It's going to be important to be able to balance and pace growth in a manner that ensures the success of the immigrant.

The other thing I would add is that, as part of this, a regional lens is important, as some of the major population centres may have more acute impacts on things like housing availability and other infrastructure. We also work with provinces and territories to ensure that we're trying to regionalize immigration as much as possible.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

I appreciate the regional nature of it.

It's a challenge, though. We might bring a particular immigration level into Saskatchewan, let's say, and people might stay there for a particular amount of time before migrating elsewhere, or vice versa. It can be a challenge, I think, at the national level.

Is it fair to say that the immigration levels set at the national level...? Are they premised on the availability of housing and housing development at the provincial level?

[Philip Somogyvari]

It's one among many factors that have been taken under consideration.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

That's okay. I understand.

We received correspondence back from Service Canada in relation to the TFW program and its impact on wages. Service Canada countered the notion that the TFW program has a downward pressure on Canadian wages. However, I went back to Professor Skuterud, who had initially been in touch with me, and he pointed out that estimates consistently point to substantial wage suppression effects with respect to the TFW program.

Can you speak to that?

[Philip Somogyvari]

One of the features of the temporary foreign worker program, as opposed to the international mobility program, is the presence of a labour market impact assessment. Among other things, one of the labour market impact assessment goals is to ensure that prevailing or proper wages are being paid, based on the occupation for which the employer is looking for a temporary worker.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

That's fair. However, is it not the case, though, that the LMIA mitigates but doesn't entirely prevent the downward pressure?

[Philip Somogyvari]

For that, I would need to consult with an academic source.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

That's okay. I did, and he suggested substantial downward pressure.

I want to move to the Treasury Board. I struggle with this idea of a one-for-one rule sometimes. I want to cut red tape that is ineffective and ineffectual, and I want to keep regulations that matter to public policy. I don't think it's always a one-for-one rule.

Shouldn't the focus be on regulations that make no sense at all and just get in the way? I'll give an example. A licensed cannabis producer today has to seek out a separate excise tax stamp in every single province they operate in. Alcohol is not subject to the same requirements. That is a frivolous regulation that gets in the way, imposes costs and has no public interest value. Why aren't we focused on those issues?

[James van Raalte]

Thank you for the question. I think it speaks to the point I raised about some of the challenges we're noticing and are addressing going forward.

As I mentioned, the Treasury Board Secretariat has led two rounds of targeted regulatory reviews in an attempt to look backwards at that existing stock, to be far more strategic and far more pressing in terms of how to eliminate ineffective regulations that are already in existence, and to look forward in terms of future-proofing those regulatory frameworks to avoid those types of problems going forward.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

I'm out of time. My last comment to you on the Treasury Board side is simply this: Please look at the nascent industries as well to ensure that we harmonize with other jurisdictions. You have to prioritize those spaces too.

Thanks very much. I appreciate it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, Nate.

We'll now move to Madam Gray for five minutes.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My first question is for the Competition Bureau. This is a quick question. I know that you were speaking about interchange fees as part of the overall credit card processing fees. I'm wondering if you're also looking at the MDRs that are included. Have you done some of that analysis from a competition point of view?

I don't expect you to have the numbers here today, but is that something you would be able to table with this committee, if you've done some analysis on that?

[Anthony Durocher]

I would be happy to look into that question with my colleagues and come back to the committee as appropriate.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Great. Thank you very much. I appreciate that.

Next, to Citizenship and Immigration Canada, you acknowledged that your processing times are not meeting the standards that have been set out and you're looking to return to processing times. What are the current processing times of your department, and what are the standards? How far off are you from what the standards are?

[Philip Somogyvari]

Thank you.

On that, I will turn to my colleague Ms. Hayward.

[Sarah Hayward, Acting Senior Director, Immigration Program Guidance, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

Thank you very much for the question.

As my colleague said, we have different lines of business. For each line of business, there are different service standards and processing times. As we have previously apologized, we realize that due to COVID, the border closures and also the closures within our own offices processing times on work permits have suffered. We are working to improve that.

Currently, the service standard for a regular work permit is 60 days. We are currently above that, but we are working to improve it. Currently, we're at about 100 days.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Would 100 days be across all of the different services? Is that an average?